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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: That communication could be improved.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: If Dr. O'Keeffe does not mind me saying, I think the answer to my question is "No".

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: Okay, but Mr. Breen stated earlier that the agency accepts it is a significant risk.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: That is on a case-by-case basis.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: We are going over old ground now, but I want clarity that at no stage has the agency taken a step back from the case-by-case basis and said to the HSE that there was an ongoing, significant and recurring risk that it had not implemented e-health records. At no stage has that happened. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: Let us contextualise it as record-keeping throughout the system, not hospital by hospital. On a case-by-case basis the agency does that-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: -----but at no stage has the State Claims Agency taken a step back from the case-by-case basis and said to the HSE that national record-keeping, as a comprehensive system, was an ongoing risk here.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: When did the agency say that? Could I have a copy of that correspondence?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: Was it at a meeting of the joint governance group?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: That is not record-keeping-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: I would very much appreciate seeing a copy of the 2017 report but-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: The current system, however, does not meet that test either. Does Mr. Breen consider this a deficit in the agency's operations? There was a thematic analysis report in respect of 2017 and it is now 2023, yet at no stage can the witnesses provide me with any kind of step-back identifying specific issues within the HSE that leave it open to continued claims?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: I hate to cut across Mr. Breen, but part of the agency's remit - he is absolutely correct - is that it learns from claims. If any of us undertook our learning on an individualised or case-by-case basis, our learning would be constrained by that. We would expect a group tasked with identifying risk to have the structural analysis ability to step back from cases and ask, given they are...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: On a case-by-case basis.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: The answer to my original question, therefore, is "No".

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: Yes, I am, because this has been a very long interaction to get a "No" answer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: Mr. Breen is describing that as though I expect the agency to impose some kind of sanction and that is not what I have described at all.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: I have a couple of questions. To go back to that lease, is it just the lease that incurred expenditure, or was it the lease and maintenance?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: It was not maintenance or fit-out really.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (2 Mar 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: It was extracting itself from the lease. On that same item, I do not know if I saw the number for non-compliant procurement.

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