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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Business of Joint Committee (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: No apologies have been received.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: The purpose of today's meeting is to discuss a common provision for cybersecurity. We are joined today by representatives from 4Securitas, Cyber Ireland and Cyber Skills Training, and by people from academia. On behalf of the committee I am very pleased to welcome Mr. Stefan Umit Uygur, chief executive officer, 4Securitas; and Mr. Pat Larkin, chief executive officer of Cyber Ireland....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I thank Senator Craughwell. I welcome Mr. Kelly. I now invite Mr. Stefan Umit Uygur to make his opening statement on behalf of 4Securitas, and then we will go to the other witnesses.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I thank Mr. Hyland and will now go to Members who will each have ten minutes. Senator Craughwell is first on the rota.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I call Professor Acton.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Dr. Lee may want to come in as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I thank Dr. Lee. I am moving on to our next contributor, but if there is time afterwards we will let people back in again. I thank Senator Craughwell and all our contributors so far. Deputy Dillon is next.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Briefly, because we want to move on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I thank members and witnesses. The next slot is mine. I am conscious that we are not the education committee of the Oireachtas. This committee deals with matters relating to transport and communications. As such, it has responsibility for how we deal with cybercrime. I was struck by the figures that were referenced in terms of the size of cybercrime in economic terms. From a regulatory...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I do not doubt him, but can Mr. Larkin explain why that is the case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Is it the case that the alternative is that one does not do this, and then companies will leave?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Have we identified where the cyberattack on the HSE came from?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Where are they based?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: We do not want to spend money if we do not have to, particularly as the country has scarce resources.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: We might be richer than we ever were, but we could still spend more money on hospitals, housing or whatever.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: There will be employment from corporation tax and all the rest. What do we need to do as a State?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: There is no hidden agenda.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: I could ask Mr. Larkin to keep going for ages, but I am conscious that even though I am the Chair, I will still have to stick to my time to a certain extent. I want to bring in Professor O'Shea and Professor Acton, who had their hands raised. Professor O'Shea can come in, and then I will bring in Mr. Umit Uyghur.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Covid showed us how much of a move we made towards digital with tap-and-go and less cash. For most of us if the battery dies in our phone or we leave it behind it is like we have our hand chopped off. We are very dependent on it in everything we do, from reading the newspaper to checking our emails to tapping to pay for almost anything.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: A Common Vision for Cybersecurity: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Gerry Horkan: Even by being here we are raising consciousness. On "Drivetime" on Monday afternoon somebody was speaking about being scammed and how they believe the voice used was probably artificial intelligence. We have not mentioned artificial intelligence, chatbots or ChatGPT. To people of a certain age, what is capable of being done is absolutely frightening. Even the sharpest minds seem to be...

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