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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. We heard in testimony from various witnesses on the issues of NAMA and their belief that NAMA crystallised losses at the wrong point in the property cycle. For example, we also heard from Mr. Fingleton last week and he gave examples of three loans that he would be familiar with which were haircutted by NAMA which he believe will ... has already accrued close to half a billion euro of...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: But does the-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: But does the transfer ... the example that was given, which we haven't seen as a committee, but the example that was given in terms of the haircuts that were provided on three particular loan cases, NAMA actually generated a profit of close to half a billion euro on them. So, therefore, it was because of the crystallisation, in Mr. Fingleton's view, of the losses at that time on the books of...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Well, Mr. Ahearne, we've also heard, and I think it was Deputy McGrath who talked about what's been referred to as vulture funds and private equity funds which are flipping loans, and we have much of this in the media which ... where they're making massive profits because not only did NAMA crystallise the losses at a point in time of the property cycle but it also ... it also sold on the...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: That's not-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: That's not the case that's being put to you, Mr. Ahearne, with all due respect. The case is that NAMA's structure meant that they had to sell on these loans. They had to sell on these assets within a certain period of time and that was being done at a time when the property prices were either at rock bottom or just starting to recover, whereas if the structure of NAMA were allowed to hold...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: My time is limited on this here but I would probably ... if we get a chance maybe somebody would pick it up. I don't think it would be fair to lay that on the door of the asset management agency because there was very strong criteria laid down as to the amount of deleveraging that NAMA would have to do as a result of the programme that Mr. Lenihan agreed with the troika. But can I ask you...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: -----and burn the bondholders?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Do you believe that Jean-Claude Trichet phoned him and told him that he could burn the bondholders?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Well, from ... you've had numerous conversations with Brian Lenihan. You've recounted some of them to the committee here today.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Is this conversation that Jean-Claude Trichet phoned Brian Lenihan and told him he could burn the bondholders and then rescinded that, said that he ... when he looked at it, because it was, I think, French and Germans that were going to get burnt that he could no longer do it. Would that be something that you believe that Brian Lenihan would keep from you, as his adviser?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Why do you find it surprising?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: No, I understand that. I accept that Mr. Trichet-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Just finally ... just one-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. One last question is, in relation to the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Scheme, which the banks that were guaranteed signed up to and gave effect to the guarantee, there is ... one of the paragraphs there allows for the Minister to amend the terms and condition and also to discontinue the guarantee for any financial institution if it weren't keeping with the objectives of the...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: No.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: No.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: No.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: But the Minister ... just to clarify there, it's article 8, which says:The Minister may review and vary the terms and conditions of this Scheme from time to time ... no later than six-month intervals, to ensure that it is achieving [its] purposes [under] the Act ... At such ... review, the Minister shall consider, inter alia, the continued requirement for the provision of financial support...

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