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Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I will look seriously at the wording because if advice has been received to suggest that it could be problematic then I want to check it out. The terms are different and they are meant to be different if, for example, one puts the word "or" in front of it. I will come back to the Deputy on that but I will seek a legal opinion and revert to the committee. The sense was that the word "avert"...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: It is purposely not defined in the legislation for the same reason I have not defined "reasonable opinion" or "good faith". It has to be about clinicians being able to make that decision. One of the flaws with the way we are having this conversation today, and it has been a constructive debate and this is the nature of Committee Stage, is that we are plucking a phrase from here or there in...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Physical or mental.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I heard many people talk about this in the past during the debates on the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act in the Dáil and Seanad. I specifically remember Dr. Mahony, the master of Holles Street hospital, make the point that when there is only life as the ground there is far too thin a line between a serious risk to health - these are not her words but my interpretation of them -...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: The Deputy can have that view. The Deputy rightly asked me how to define serious harm. This is a rhetorical question but if one removes it, what is the health ground then? I am not being facetious about this because I do not believe any woman decides to have a termination lightly and nobody should attribute that to what I am about to say. However, I referred to the respiratory tract...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: That is a deviation from what I told the people we would do as legislators in the general scheme published in March. Regardless of my or other people's personal views, we told the people that it was not just health. Indeed, many of our opponents tried to paint that picture. They told people not to vote "Yes" because if they did the politicians would change it anyway. I have a significant...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I have had lots of engagement.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I have had so many conversations with them I do not recall a specific one. When they wrote to us today asking us to make certain changes in the legislation this is not one of the changes they have sought. I do not feel comfortable enough to speak for them. As with public representatives, there will be many different views in the medical community on this as well. However, I am confident...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: It is not serious risk, it is serious harm.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: It is the specialist doctor advising the woman as to the best way the doctor can rectify it. To be clear, nobody should be obliged to have their health jeopardised. The question here is whether the best way to avert that - "mitigate" is the word Deputy Kelly and others want us to consider - is a termination or if there are other medical interventions that do not require termination that can...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: The Deputy asked me two questions.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: The Deputy asked me that question too. The second question the Deputy asked is about who defines it. As I told Deputy Jonathan O'Brien, the clinicians define it in clinical guidelines. I do not wish to speak for a disparate group of people but I have not received any correspondence or a sense from them that this is causing them a particular difficulty in terms of their understanding of it.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: If I do I will take it very seriously.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I do not believe that.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Exactly. That is the point I am making.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Yes.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Yes.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Yes.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I note it is Deputy Donnelly who tabled the amendment and that perhaps it is contrary to his personal views but he has tabled it on behalf of colleagues of his. I accept that people hold the view sincerely and that what they are trying to do may seem minor because it is just changing one word. It is largely the opposite to many of the conversations we had earlier about making sure our...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: No, absolutely.

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