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Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I know it is different but-----

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: Yes.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: Will I speak to it first to save time? Perhaps the Minister might go ahead now if it suits.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: To follow the contributions of Deputy Donnelly and the Minister, my amendment specifically speaks to the removal of the words "without extraordinary life-sustaining measures" to be substituted by "with reasonable medical care". The March version of the general scheme of the Bill which was placed in front of the people defined viability as "the point in pregnancy at which, in the reasonable...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I was not until recently. This is materially different from what was included in the March version of the Bill. It is vague and unclear and, again, a departure from the essence of what we are trying to do.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: Like Deputy Donnelly, I know what the Minister's intentions are here. I cannot see what the problem is with the March version as I imagine it was cleared with the Attorney General. Let us consider the word "extraordinary" and, as Deputy Bríd Smith has asked, what is meant by extraordinary versus ordinary. I spent a long time in an intensive care unit with a neonate one time so I can...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I will make a brief comment. I indicated I wished to contribute. Extraordinary is subjective-----

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: Deputy Durkan indicated before I did. It is subjective. Deputy Fitzpatrick's interpretation, if he were in that situation, would be totally different. That is what Deputy O'Reilly is saying. It is about the language. We are trying to get the best legislation.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: With regard to the word "extraordinary", let us consider a new novel machine in America or the provision of an air ambulance. These things happen. People go to receive treatment. They might say the Minister said he would provide extraordinary care and there is extraordinary care in America. It is too vague. Considering all the other technical issues, it is too vague but we will work on it.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I move amendment No. 39: In page 9, lines 7 and 8, to delete “without extraordinary life-sustaining measures” and substitute “with reasonable medical care”. I reserve the right to resubmit the amendment on Report Stage. I expect meaningful engagement. I feel strongly about this, as do many other members. I want meaningful engagement to try to get this sorted.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I move amendment No. 43:In page 9, line 11, to delete “having examined the pregnant woman” and substitute “following a medical consultation with the pregnant woman”.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: My concern here is the use of the word "examined". I would like to change it to read "medical consultation". This has to be a two-way process; the woman must be involved. I also believe that the word "examined" suggested that there will be a physical exam. In standard checks before 12 weeks of a pregnancy with no complications, I am told this is not necessary. I am concerned that the use...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: Did I hear the Minister correctly when he picked up something and quoted what constitutes consultation? Was he implying that the definition of "consultation" - from whatever he was reading - covers the term "ascertain views"? Is that what he is implying? I do not want to misquote him, but I took from what the Minister said that a consultation per those guidelines involves ascertaining...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: We are agreed that we are going to work on it.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: It does not sound collaborative. The minute I read it, I immediately thought about a victim of a violent rape and that person being obliged to undergo a physical examination. Obviously, it would cover everybody but, from a human point of view, it is important that we look at this.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I will withdraw the amendment. We will discuss it with the Minister and I expect a positive outcome.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: In the same vein, I think it is unworkable. It was never the intention of the Joint Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution and while I may be incorrect, I never heard it suggested, that it would be the same doctor when discussing wait periods and such. From the advice I have been given, it is unworkable in a practical sense. I know there are issues with one doctor certifying...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I earlier referenced a three-day wait but that does not apply in cases involving a risk to life or health. I do not want to confuse anybody.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: It will arise but there is no three-day wait in cases involving a risk to life or health.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I move amendment No. 57:In page 9, to delete lines 23 to 28 and substitute the following:“(4) The obstetrician referred to in subsection (2)(a), or the medical practitioner referred to in subsection (2)(b) shall make such arrangements as he or she shall deem to be necessary for the termination of pregnancy as certified in subsection (3).”.

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