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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Based on 2.5% growth per annum, how much will the NRA end up putting in per annum?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Did the witness request information about the possible value of the carriages in terms of resale? I refer to the original contract. Did any negotiations take place whereby contingencies were built in that if the volumes were not available, there would be perhaps reservation and title maintained over the carriages by the vendor? At that time, in December 2008, the Celtic tiger economy was...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Were these carriages all acquired at once or were they acquired over time? Why do we have a situation where there is obviously not the capacity to use the 21 carriages? Planning was probably done for that in 2006 and 2007, which was the height of the Celtic tiger economy. However, it was running on hot stem at that time and at a speed that was not natural. Why was it not done on a phased...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: With regard to the 51 in 2008, at that point in time could a decision have been made by Irish Rail not to purchase them?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Effectively, 51 divided by 21 means that over 40% of the carriages of that particular order were bought when the Celtic tiger economy was running down at a rapid rate. The 234 carriages date back to the 2004 order. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: That was in 2004. My point is that between 2004 and 2008 circumstances changed. Clearly, at that point in time there was a trigger mechanism whereby it got the 120, 30 and the 33. When it came to 2008, could it have varied the order for the 51 and opted for 30 carriages?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Explain why that did not happen.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: It would still have been €20 million plus.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Mr. O'Mahony is an experienced official. With due respect, this is about cash flow and managing scarce taxpayers' resources. What year were the 120 ordered?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I can understand the 120, 30 and 33. Was there a decline in passenger numbers? In my view one could see a major dip in the Celtic tiger economy in July 2007. When in 2008 were the carriages purchased?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: They were purchased after the bank guarantee. We were in a situation where Ireland did not have those resources. What was the methodology used by the Department and Irish Rail to sign off on 51 carriages, which is 19 more than were ordered in the previous year? Were passenger numbers increasing? What was the logic? Why did they not pull back and re-order? Mr. O'Mahony speaks about their...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: With due respect, that is stating the obvious.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: What I am interested in is the methodology. The job of the Committee of Public Accounts is to find out if the procedures within Departments are robust. Explain the process by which these 51 carriages were agreed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: We had representatives of the National Transport Authority before us recently to discuss the procurement of carriages for Irish Rail. Some €36 million was paid to Irish Rail at the end of 2012, yet 21 carriages, with a value of approximately €44 million, were not in use. What due diligence process would have been carried out by the Department in that respect? In December 2010...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: The figure came to €500 million.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: What due diligence process was carried out, given that level of investment in carriages? There were 21 carriages idle at the end of 2012, yet the Department saw fit to extend €36 million to Irish Rail at the time.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I would assume that at this stage the bulk of the data would be on computer systems within Departments and therefore they might bring computers and so forth with them. If the information is not available, I do not see any reason they should not be able to access the bulk of it on the day. If we put them on alert that we expect them to have complete and comprehensive access to information on...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: At this stage it has been going on for well over-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Why has it been ongoing? What about the Statute of Limitations and so forth?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Feb 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is there a legal case at the moment? Is it sub judice?

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