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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: This cannot be a licence for the banks to engage in wholesale repossessions. The banks did it in the United Kingdom in the early 1990s. Irish citizens have bailed out the banks to the tune of €64 billion. While we want to put people on a sustainable basis, we must remember that if people lose their homes, there will still be a charge on the State in certain circumstances. The Irish...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: To keep people in the family home.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: My point is that a 20 year mortgage might be sustainable over a 40 year period. That operates in the context of the State.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: It is exactly the analogy I am using. The laws of finance apply whether one is referring to the State, a bank or an individual. Banks are extremely creative when the have to be. The fact that taxpayers' money has been invested means banks must be creative and proactive in considering measures for people who want to remain in their family homes. There will be occasions when people will...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: In respect of the bonuses to bankers, can we take it that no bonuses will be paid within banks during the period when the Irish taxpayer and State support covered institutions?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Including bonuses?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: In respect of the mortgage issue, context is everything. I am linking into the mortgage issue. The context is that during the period from 2003 onwards, particularly from 2006 and 2007 onwards, ordinary people were given mortgages by banks that they could not afford. We have now found that many of them were in jobs that were unsustainable and built on a property bubble and the banks were...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: If somebody is appointed to a sensitive role, as was the case with Mr. Torpey, procedures should be put in place to prevent the individual going to a covered institution with the knowledge he or she gained in that role.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I want to touch on a few areas. I want to go back to the issue of Mr. Michael Torpey. Is it something on which the Department is working through? When did Mr. Torpey transfer from the NTMA to the banking unit in the Department of Finance?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Would Mr. Torpey have been involved? Would he have day-to-day dealings with Bank of Ireland itself, let us say, when he came over into the banking unit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Would he have been dealing on a day-to-day basis with Bank of Ireland?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: He went out on holidays on 14 December last year, he had a month's holidays and he gave the Department notice when he came back. Since he joined Bank of Ireland, has he represented the bank in dealing with the Department on the various banking transactions?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: There is a question to which I am leading and it is obvious. The Department is looking at the corporate issue and I am purely fleshing it out. Looking at it from the public's viewpoint, the Department had someone who headed up a division that dealt with shareholders within the banks, one of them being Bank of Ireland, who is now joining Bank of Ireland. Will he be in a position to...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Effectively, he will dealing with staff with whom he would have worked in the division in the Department two or three months earlier or staff who would have reported to him.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I would have concerns in that regard. I understand how it operates. This is in no way about the individual or the Department. In terms of something that is so specific, the restructuring in the banking sector here is unprecedented. Here we have an individual who was heading up a division which was dealing with the banks and who, within a month's time, could be dealing with the same...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I was acting as substitute.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Agreed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Appropriation Accounts and Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 6 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Financial Outturn for 2011
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 3 - Banking and Insurance Measures
Chapter 5 - EU Financial Transactions
(7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I preface that by saying that I have no issue with staff going from the public to the private sector. We need that interaction. Mr. Moran referred to whether they were entering something that is new. For that, there must be corporate governance structures or, for want of a term, "procedures", of which the public can be confident.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Will the Chairman outline the process being followed?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: It is in respect of the interim report. However, an interim report never issued.

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