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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General can understand that the figure of £1.3 billion came from PIMCO to start with and that a few days later, it is NAMA's reserve price. NAMA will have to explain to us how there is no connection or whether there is a connection between them. My next point concerns the reply received on 3 November relating to this issue. On page 5, there is reference to...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Is that the result of the board paper in June 2013 looking at the 5.5% rate?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: The 10% fair value discount in the 2012 statements applied at the time that the decision on offering the Eagle portfolio for the sale was being considered by the board. The board was aware that this fair value rate applied to the loan portfolio as a whole but was also aware given that the loans comprising Project Eagle were among the riskiest of all loans held by NAMA, a fair value discount...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: In other words, NAMA has qualified this in the letter of clarification in the last week by saying that had the loans been evaluated, the 10% rate would have been applicable but they did not value them. The 10% rate is based on something that did not happen.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: At the end of the day, Mr. McCarthy is satisfied with the 5.5% discount rate he has referred to in his document. We have asked NAMA to produce otherwise and there are various references in the documentation to the board to 5.5% and 2.5% and a marginal reference to 10%. We will pursue all those with the board members when they appear again. We will conclude this session. I thank Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: The committee is now back in public session. I welcome the following officials from the Department of Finance: Ms Ann Nolan, second Secretary General; Mr. Declan Reid, senior banking specialist; and Mr. Des Carville, head of shareholding management unit. I remind members, witnesses and those in the Gallery to turn off all mobile phones or ensure they are on aeroplane mode. I advise the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Reid is at a disadvantage.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: There is a lot of documentation.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Help us again. Does Deputy Cullinane know which pile it is in?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I am going to call Deputy Cassells. Deputy McDonald will have an opportunity later to come back in.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Has Ms Nolan got a copy of this letter?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: For the record, has Mr. Reid something on that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Does it refer to PIMCO?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: A mobile phone is ringing again. I ask everybody to ensure their phones are switched off as the interference they cause affects the recording of the proceedings.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Before I call Deputy Madigan, I wish to follow up on one point. I think the witnesses said that the Department's main concern related to the commercial aspects of NAMA. It would have been concerned if the Comptroller and Auditor General, had strayed into that, which he did not and the Department accepts he did not. Did Ms Nolan suggest to Deputy Cassells that regarding the sale there was...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Is Ms Nolan saying, therefore, that the report is right and that NAMA cannot prove it did get the best price for that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I will read one sentence of Ms Nolan's opening statement: "I also confirm that in each interaction with our Northern Ireland counterparts, it was stressed that NAMA was independent in its functions, should be approached directly by interested parties, was obliged to run a competitive process, and must be satisfied that it had achieved the best price." Ms Nolan is saying it is impossible-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Okay, so Ms Nolan-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: How do we know the reserve price? Ms Nolan cannot answer that. Is she satisfied it got the best price?

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