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Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: We will do Vote 21. However, we will start with prisons as the Deputy has kicked off with prisons, and that is fine. We will take the prisons and we will then take each subhead and go through it that way. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: I call Deputy Carroll MacNeill. Is it on the prisons?

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: Following on from that last exchange, regarding prisoners purchasing items in prisons, and Deputy Carroll MacNeill mentioned the tuckshop and various products the prisoners may wish to buy, it was reported that there was an issue in some prisons whereby the families of prisoners could not lodge money for them to be held on account or in a credit system. Some prisoners may not have bank...

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: I thank the Minister of State. That concludes our discussion of the Vote on prisons. We will take Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána next. We will go around the table for any questions the members may have, and then we will do the same for each subhead. I call Deputy Carroll MacNeill.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: Before the Minister of State responds, I wish to concur with the Deputy's point in respect of the bike training course. I have heard the same feedback from Garda members with whom I am friendly, particularly in the context of the role of bicycle usage and training in community policing. Deputy Costello makes a good point about gardaí on bike patrols being part of the urban environment...

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: I have a few questions before we move on to the next head. My remarks will mirror some of what has been said to an extent. I, too, have a question on retention and recruitment. Deputy Martin Kenny and I recently attended a meeting of the National Bus and Rail Union at which there were representatives of the Garda Representative Association, GRA, and the Association of Garda Sergeants and...

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: How many come in with each intake? What is the class size?

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: There will be five batches of 200 to make up the 1,000 gardaí.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: Okay. That will take approximately 18 months, or a little longer, to go through the system.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: Very good. I thank the Minister of State. I am not sure whether it is an issue of resources, equipment, training or all of the above, but the Minister of State referred to attacks on members of the force while on duty, such as those in Ballyfermot and Cherry Orchard and a few others we heard about during summer and in recent months. It was suggested in the media at the time of those...

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: I thank the Minister of State. What about the point about whether there is a greater concentration of probationer members of the force in certain areas? That may give rise to difficulty in more challenging districts.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: Thank you. That concludes the discussion on Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána. We will move on to Vote 22 - Courts Service. This is a technical Vote.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: I want to follow on with question on the number of judges. The Minister of State mentioned the McManus report. This matter was raised at the committee last week. As Deputy Costello noted, it is not just with regard to High Court judges although obviously this is very important. The volume of cases that can be managed is a function of how many judges are available. We have an opportunity...

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: One item remains under this heading. Senator Murphy expressed an interest in the courthouse in Roscommon. I am not sure whether the Minister of State is in a position to provide information. If not perhaps a note can be sent to the committee afterwards.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: I thank the Minister of State. I am sure Senator Murphy and Roscommon will be very happy to hear this news. On this note, I do not know whether it is appropriate to ask about Naas courthouse. It is something we touched on when discussing the Estimates in previous years.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: I thank the Minister of State. We will now move to the justice Vote.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: I completely agree with Deputy Kenny. I may have discussed this issue before. The legal aid practitioners or practitioners who benefit from the legal aid scheme may be the only profession left, outside of the FEMPI cuts, that have not yet been restored back to a 2008 to 2010 timeframe. That is a long time to wait, particularly considering the current inflationary climate. I support what...

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: My question concerns criminal legal aid. I think that family legal aid is a little bit better but could do with some improvement as well.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: Does the Deputy mean the WRC case?

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2022)

James Lawless: Very good.

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