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Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: My amendments Nos. 17 and 20 follow on from the initial discussion on the definition of termination of pregnancy and the consequences of using certain language. Then Deputy Tóibín spoke and the gist of what he said - and I ask him to correct me if I am misrepresenting what he said - is that it states in the Bill that the termination of pregnancy is ending the life of a foetus....

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: We will try our best.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I move amendment No. 17:In page 6, lines 31 and 32, to delete “end the life of a foetus” and substitute “end a pregnancy”.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I move amendment No. 20:In page 6, line 35, to delete “end the life of a foetus” and substitute “end a pregnancy”.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I move amendment No. 27:In page 7, lines 3 to 5, to delete all words from and including “for” in line 3 down to and including “Act” in line 5 and substitute the following:“to assist or coerce a pregnant woman to intentionally end, or attempt to end, a pregnancy otherwise than in accordance with the provisions of this Act”. I would like to speak to...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I thought clarification was given that we were discussing amendments Nos. 16 to 21, inclusive, together.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: Is there any provision to briefly discuss my amendment? My lack of experience has caught me out. I asked to speak specifically because I was confused. I will only take a second.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I thank the Chair. We are back to the wording and the previous discussion. I am concerned about the use of the words "aid, abet, counsel or procure" in section 5(4). The use of the words "aid" and "abet" is alarming. I may be incorrect but my interpretation is that someone who counsels a pregnant woman and recommends a termination in a conversation could be given a 14 year jail sentence...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I thank the Minister, and the Chairman for facilitating me.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: I very much believe we need to be able to review this legislation. Five years, however, is a little bit on the long finger. I believe Deputy Daly has an amendment in this regard.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: Perhaps, therefore, we could reach a compromise between the two periods, sincerely hoping that the current Minister will be following through. I very much support the amendment but I would like to see the period shortened somewhat, recognising, however, that we need time to realise what deficiencies exist, what we can improve and the unintended consequences that might emerge.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: Is that from the point of enactment? When does the three year period kick in?

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: The discussion on this has been a good one. I see completely where the Minister is coming from. The 28 day period is a sort of line in the sand. We heard a lot of evidence at the committee about the complexity of fatal foetal abnormality. It may not involve only one serious neural tube defect such as anencephaly, which is an obvious fatal foetal abnormality. One could have a number of...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: This is out of order. We are past telling stories.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: It has just struck me that one of the experts who appeared before the Joint Committee on the Eighth Amendment, Dr. Peter Thompson, was asked a question about this. I cannot repeat his reply verbatim but I remember he referred to "two doctors", "reasonable opinion" and "good faith". What way is this issue dealt with in other countries? Have any other countries referred to "28 days" or "29...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: Well, I was probably being a little bit overly dramatic but problems occur.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: It is not the intention but it could happen.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: It could happen. Theoretically, that could happen.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: It would be very useful to find out what happens in other jurisdictions.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Kate O'Connell: It is not an exact science, as the Minister himself said. It is very important because I would hate to see a cut-off period of 28 days and then-----

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