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Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Or three.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: There are a couple of things to say. Firstly, I welcome the fact that, even from a wide range of perspectives on the substantive issue, Deputies see the benefit of having a review clause. I believe that is the responsible thing to do and it is what the women and doctors of this country deserve. I should have stated the obvious at the outset. Of course legislation can be reviewed at any...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: It kicks in from the point of enactment.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I do not wish to be overly prescriptive in the legislation but I think that is-----

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: No, let us put that on the record of the committee. That is the intention. Already there are several clauses in the legislation that will produce yearly reports, collection of data and notifications to the Minister. There will be a regular flow of information coming to the Department of Health. I or my successors will make available that information to the Oireachtas and the Joint...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I think that is appropriate.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: That makes sense.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I thank Deputy Daly. The definition of "health", as the Deputy has correctly said, means physical or mental health. One of the things we were trying to do in defining health was to be absolutely clear that, contrary to what we heard from some during the referendum campaign, mental health is health and mental health is equally important to physical health. The reason we defined health was...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I was advised from a legal point of view that this could be too nebulous for the purposes of the legislation and could inadvertently broaden the grounds. That is the reason I am not in a position to accept it.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I will try to be helpful. There will be doctors meeting in other rooms trying to put together the clinical guidelines on how to interpret whatever legislation we pass. We want our doctors to follow the clinical guidelines of their medical colleges rather than the textual lines of our legislation. I am happy to reflect on this matter, but we have to be conscious of how doctors and the wider...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I am happy to do my best to provide Deputy Bríd Smith with clarity, although I do not know if she will agree with what I have to say. She might recall that when we published the general scheme in March, we defined this as "shortly after birth". I think we all understood the policy intention - as a policymaker, I certainly did - that this was to ensure that the issue of fatal foetal...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I know that other Deputies wish to come in but I think this clarification will be useful. The reason I am including this is to provide much wanted and sought after clarification for the medical community and also legal clarity. The scheme I published on the Department’s website on 28 March required certification of a “condition affecting a foetus that is likely to lead to the...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: The legal clarification I received was that “shortly after” was too vague. Furthermore, in conversations I had with medics, including senior members of the profession, they welcomed and sought greater clarity in our legislation. They must have their guidelines but these must be based on and anchored in the law. Their view and mine is that “shortly after” is too...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: To take Deputy Grealish's point, this goes back to choice. Different women and their partners will make different decisions in different cases. The tragedy in Ireland at present is that the State will support and protect those who make one choice and send those who make the other to Liverpool. That is what we are trying to end here. As Minister, I brought forward the general scheme in...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Yes, I apologise. Those were Deputy Donnelly's words.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I am sure Deputy Smith did not mean it this way, but I do not think anyone here is trying to have it both ways. I think we are all trying to ensure we get the best legislation we can and achieve what the Oireachtas committee tried to achieve and what the general scheme ultimately, in my view, tried to achieve. I would be happy, when I brief members of the health committee as to why this was...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I am happy to facilitate the Deputy's request.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: That is true.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: It is a myth that one cannot share the Attorney General's advice. One cannot hand out the Attorney General's advice or letters containing that advice. In my time as Minister for Health, on every single occasion I have been asked to share the Attorney General's advice I have done so by way of speeches in the Dáil or précispapers that I had circulated in advance of the wording to...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Yes because the clinical guidelines are what help the clinicians to do their job. That is how clinicians interpret the law but if we do not provide them with the clarity in the law, then there is a problem. I am not referring to Deputy Donnelly here when I say that we might find ourselves crossing over into the role of being both politicians and obstetricians. The obstetricians know what...

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