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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: So the figure over 12 months appears to have remained static. A total of €9 million out of the €61 million is outstanding for over 12 months. Of the €74 million, about €8 million was outstanding for more than 12 months. Mr. O'Brien will appreciate that it is nothing personal but the ordinary person sees that €61 million is outstanding in terms of forms...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: When Mr. O'Brien said turnaround time-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: To link that back in with the 14 days from discharge, the form would go to the private insurer. How does that link in to these particular days for the consultant?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: The new agreement effectively means that within 14 working days of discharge - am I correct in that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is it 14 days from the date the consultant receives the documentation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is there any time limit in which the hospital must complete the documentation to go to the consultant?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is that 21 days from the date of discharge?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is that 21 working days or days?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Twenty-one plus 20 is 41 days. That is roughly five to six weeks. Why does it take that length of time to get an invoice in place after a patient has been discharged? Is that 41 days from discharge from the hospital?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Why does it take so long?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: It seems a relatively long turnaround time period. Can I go back to the €61 million, of which €9 million is outstanding for more than a year? How many consultants are involved in that €9 million and why has a situation been allowed to develop whereby documentation relating to €9 million of taxpayers' money to allow a claim to be put in is effectively outstanding...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: It would have to in some way. If it was €74 million back in September 2012 and of the €61 million, €9 million is outstanding for more than a year, some of that €9 million must have been included in the €74 million as well.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: It is still the same. It is coming out of the same pool.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: If they are outstanding for more than 12 months, they are included in the €74 million at the end of September.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: That could be less than six months outstanding.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: We were led to believe last October that there was €74 million in forms in respect of the consultants' element of the private fee income that had not been billed to whatever private insurer because the forms had not been signed off by the consultant. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Of the €61 million, what are the debtors' days? How long is that outstanding? That is a different issue. I am talking about an administrative issue. I am going through the eye of a needle here for something that should be relatively straightforward to answer. I will not let it go because at the end of the day, it is taxpayers' money. Of the €61 million, could Mr. Woods...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: If €61 million worth of bills have not gone to a private insurer and if the HSE is an organisation with a budget of €13 billion to €14 billion per year but Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Woods are not able to tell me how long that €61 million has been outstanding for, I must ask why they cannot give me that figure because this is relatively straightforward accounting.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is it one half or one third of the figure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2011
(25 Apr 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I would have expected Mr. Woods to have that figure here today because we have done so much work on this. We brought out a report on the HSE with specific mention of the €74 million. I have written to the HSE and we produced a report on the matter. We still do not know why €61 million remains outstanding, how long it is outstanding and how many consultants are involved. Is...

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