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Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: The Tánaiste.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I thank Deputy Tóibín. I have great difficulty with this amendment for quite a few reasons. The first and the broad reason relates to our good discussion yesterday, which was of considerable length, about the issues of consent and of clinicians fulfilling their duties under the Medical Council guidelines. I struggle to believe that Doctor, or rather Deputy, Tóibín - a...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: That was about Irish women.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: In the interests of clarity, I did not give examples from the UK. What I quoted, as the Irish Minister for Health, was the record of Irish women travelling to the UK, which is relevant to this debate. Those were figures compiled about Irish citizens who had to go to the UK because of the pain of the eighth amendment to access healthcare.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I am listening very carefully.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Those were not his words.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: There is always a reason.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: That is very offensive to women.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I find Deputy McGrath's comments disgusting. He is comparing insuring a car to a woman accessing an abortion. That sort of stuff is disgusting. He should not say the Tánaiste-----

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I largely agree with Deputy Bríd Smith. We are at risk of rerunning the campaign here, which would not help any woman in crisis today. We have had two long days of debate and I am sure we will have another intense day of debate today. There is a duty on us to proceed through the amendments, give them consideration and move this legislation forward. I will recap quickly on a number...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Those comments do not require a response.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: As the Deputy rightly said, there is nothing new in regard to consent in this Bill that does not already exist in the Irish health service. It will be based entirely on the document, Guide to Professional Conduct and Ethics for Registered Medical Practitioners, because it is the job of the Medical Council to regulate this area. It is not directly my job and it is certainly not the job of...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Yes, that is the current consent policy.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: It might be useful for me to come in now as Deputy Donnelly has helpfully outlined the key questions. I have a note I would like to go through as it is important to put it on the record to achieve the clarity that Deputy Donnelly has correctly indicated people want. Before getting to that, I will answer his two questions directly. This includes student doctors and nurses, which is the...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I will get to that with the note. There is the matter of transfer of care. Section 17 of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 relates to conscientious objection, indicating that "A person who has a conscientious objection referred to in subsection (1) shall make such arrangements for the transfer of care of the pregnant woman concerned as may be necessary to enable the woman to...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: Yes. Their code of conduct already states that they can do it but need to take reasonable action. In other words, they might need to identify where the service may be available. The following may not be well known but it is important for pharmacists from a services perspective; we are discussing the law and this is somewhat separate in that it is the operation of the law. It is not...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: That is an important point. One of the reasons it is so particularly important relates to what we discussed yesterday and even the day before about certification. If an obstetrician certifies a woman for a procedure but goes on leave and the covering obstetrician has a conscientious objection, it demonstrates the importance of rectifying what the Deputy, I and others discussed over recent...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: That is correct, but the wording is the same.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I would not imagine so.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Simon Harris: I apologise; the wording is included in section 23 of this Bill.

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