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Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: Who did that analysis?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: How can Mr. Murphy believe Irish Rail in particular or the CIE group of companies when their accounts are in such a mess? Essentially, that is the point being made this morning. That is a massive loss of taxpayers' money, and it is a huge amount of money. A company in the private sector would be broke if it did that and here is this company showing gross inefficiency and poor quality in...

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: Can Mr. Murphy not take that position on behalf of the travelling public because he is a regulator in a sense? That was the essence of the earlier exchanges with Mr. Murphy. I cannot fathom why Mr. Murphy cannot either do this to the company by way of putting a stop to the carry-on taking place in CIE or that he makes some extraordinary submission to Government calling a halt to all of this...

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: Can I stop Mr. Murphy there? They are not because many of these services can be provided in the private sector but CIE bullies people off the pitch. That must be acknowledged. I have seen numerous reports from private bus operators in particular that contend that that is the case. I will not go into it now because it is not Mr. Murphy's remit but it is impossible to get to the end of the...

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: I disagree with some of the points Mr. Murphy has made and I will come back to them in some other way but I want to ask a final question. Has Mr. Murphy a comment on the cost of the CIE board and chairman? Has he considered this?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: I wish to clarify issues with Mr. Murphy that were raised by Deputy Ross. At the end of last year it was reported that Irish Rail was close to securing a deal with a private sector buyer to sell land holdings at Spencer Dock in Dublin. As part of the problems for the company at the time the report indicated it required €16 million in order to allow it to pay for its day-to-day...

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: Could we focus on the €16 million for the moment? Did the NTA intervene in that respect?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: My question is whether that is the role of the NTA.

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: What were the conditions of payment? I accept the other money was there. I will return to that in a moment. A total of €16 million was made available as part of a bigger amount. Does it have to be repaid or is it gone?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: A subsidy.

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: Irish Rail got a subsidy of €16 million and it realised €20 million from the sale of property. It had to sell the property because it could not meet day to day expenses. In spite of realising €20 million on the property sale, it still got €16 million of taxpayers’ money as a subsidy.

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: It got more.

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: Deputy Ross referred to the accounts. I will do likewise. In July 2012 the Government approved a bailout of €36 million for CIE. Will Mr. Murphy tell us about that? Was it paid? Has it been drawn down?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: Was it fully drawn down?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: Will they account for the €36 million to the authority?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: Therefore, it comes under the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General because we examine the authority’s accounts.

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: The accounts were published in late 2012. Probably the most significant information was that PwC warned about the ability of the company to continue as a going concern given its level of liabilities. Concerns were expressed over its future trading prospects. The company said it would not come into profitability until at least 2015. The backdrop to all of the companies is continued subsidy...

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: It is a massive amount of money for a company whose accounts show that it has trading difficulties and that it will not come into profitability until 2015. That is a huge problem for the NTA, the State and the company. The situation for the travelling public is that all of the money is going in through the NTA, which sets the fares. Mr. Murphy said this morning that the authority only sets...

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: Mr. Murphy said the NTA looks at cost controls in the company in connection with the accounts and that it gets €265 million a year. If the NTA is looking at cost controls and it is also approving capital expenditure, does it look in detail at what the money is being spent on, and whether it provides value for money and if that continues to be the case? Is that part of the...

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

John McGuinness: CIE bought passenger carriages for several million US dollars and put them into service, but it did not get value for money because it did not use them as intended. Is that something that concerns Mr. Murphy and that he will investigate? Has it come to light within the organisation?

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