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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: I need details on three issues with regard to CIE, but I do not expect Mr. O'Mahony to be able to provide the information on these this morning. There was an incident with regard to the illegal scrapping of commercial freight carriages and I would like to know the details of that. Will Mr. O'Mahony ask about that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: You will have to determine that from CIE. I understand the company knows of the incident and I would like to know whether the story is true or false.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: We spoke about the purchase of carriages and the non-use of carriages. Does the same apply to the locomotives that pull these carriages? How are they purchased, where are they maintained and who has the contract for their maintenance? Can Mr. O'Mahony provide that information also?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Perhaps Mr. O'Mahony can check something else when searching for that information. A gentleman wrote to us and said that he was asked by the board to produce a report. I am probably free to name the company in question, Grimes & Company, because a copy of the report was sent to every member. Can Mr. O'Mahony determine the detail of that contract?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: That is the indication he gave.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Out of this report, I do not doubt it but I would like to be sure of its standing, a number of other questions will arise and we may have to bring you back to discuss them.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: How much is the company losing a week?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: What is it expected to lose in 2013?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: What was it last year and in 2011?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: It was €11 million, but that took into account the €36 million.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Therefore, without that it would have lost €47 million.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: You are saying that this year the projection is lower.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: What is the overall deficit? What is the hard core debt?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Its total banking facility is €107 million. Is it at that limit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: I want to put my questions in context. I asked about the consultant's report regarding the purchase of the carriages, which raises many questions. I have asked a number of questions about the carriages and locomotives and also about the matter of operating costs and losses this year. On receipt of that information and the other information promised, it may very well be necessary to talk...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Does CIE quantify the figures in any way? In other words, is the company satisfied that it is not being underpaid or overpaid in relation to the €152 million the Department pays it to operate the scheme or some sort of a notional figure arrived at?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: I presume the Department examines the accounts of CIE with NewERA every week. Does this matter not arise in the context of those examinations?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Is it a policy decision in CIE? Does the company accept the figure provided by the Department? If I was operating the scheme, I would know if I was being short-changed on the €152 million. Mr. O'Mahony informs us that the Department reviews the accounts of CIE every week. Does the Department believe CIE is being short-changed on the €152 million it receives or is the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: The Department of Education and Skills pays €61 million to CIE for school transport. My question on that scheme is similar. I presume the Department gives CIE the sum of €61 million for work which is, by and large, subcontracted to other bus operators.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Has CIE quantified the level of usage of school transport? Does the company make a profit on the €61 million it receives from the Department for school transport or is the scheme largely carried out by the subcontractors? Does CIE have a separate account for school transport?

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