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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: We are not here to be political. Was Mr. Long told it was political?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: The next speaker is Deputy Cassells.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I have some questions following on from that. When did Mr. Long hear about the actual reasons for PIMCO's exit from the process? He was not aware at this stage but when did he become aware?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: The transaction closed in June, several months later, so Mr. Long was not aware at any stage up to that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I will ask a few questions and we can have a second round in a moment. The list of potential bidders is on page 71 of the report as follows: PIMCO; Blackstone; Starwood; Oaktree; Apollo; Lone Star; Cerberus; Goldman Sachs; and Fortress. I would not know all of these. Are they all American-based or European-based organisations?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: When NAMA started out, it was the largest property-holding company on the planet. Why would it confine such a sale just to Americans? In London one can see the investment from eastern Europe and the Middle East. Why did Lazard not look further afield, given that NAMA was the biggest property-holding company on the planet?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Are there people from the Middle East or Asia in this market today?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. Long; I just wanted to clarify that. Was it unusual to require no external funding? How much of an impact would that have had on price given that the nine potential bidders could not obtain finance to support their bids?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: In Mr. Long's professional career with his company he has dealt with about 50 sales. Would that condition have applied in many of the 50? How common or unusual would that be?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Would it be 10% or 2%. How many would it be, ballpark? The thing is unusual and would have an impact on price.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: It would be quite a minority.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. Long; I just wanted to check that. On the letter of engagement, there was the verbal agreement, a slide presentation. As Deputy McDonald mentioned earlier, we wrote to NAMA some time ago looking for some documentation. There was a concern from NAMA that Lazard had not consented to the release of information. Is Mr. Long familiar with that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Would Mr. Long have no problem with NAMA forwarding us a copy of-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: We will formally ask for that so. The issue was with Lazard's subsequent advice to NAMA.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I will come back to that. Mr. Long said earlier that when PIMCO withdrew, Lazard notified Cerberus and Fortress. Why would that have been done if Lazard wanted to maintain competitive tension? Surely by telling them the biggest and most prominent player on the field has left the pitch,-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: -----it was diminishing the competitive tension. Surely Lazard was there to keep the competitive tension. Why would it have done that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Demotivated Cerberus.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: It might have felt it was a smaller race thereby giving it a better chance. The letter Mr. Long mentioned a minute ago was Lazard's letter of recommendation to NAMA on 2 April 2014. Lazard had an issue with some of it being released. Mr. Long might discuss that issue with NAMA again with a view to releasing it or if there is a particular aspect that requires to be redacted, Mr. Long...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: On 2 April 2014, the one after the conclusion of the bid.

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