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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Daly can understand my question. NAMA was actually quite lucky to have a second bidder standing because it did not have a contest or a competitive situation without Fortress.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Yes, but I am dealing with what happened and not with what might have happened. Mr. Daly can understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Please do.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I have to contradict Mr. Collison there. He said that the board gave latitude to Lazard to see whether anybody else was interested in coming in.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Lazard did not contact Fortress. Fortress contacted the Taoiseach's office.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Fortress might have been contacted.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: That might have happened. Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Yes. It is amusing that NAMA has chastised the Comptroller and Auditor General for using the word "probable", but now it is telling us it is possible or probable that it might have or could have invited somebody else to get involved. Mr. Daly and Mr. Collison have spent the last few minutes talking about things that might have possibly happened, but did not actually happen. None of what...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I want the witnesses to understand this point. Before we conclude, I will let them all make a final comment on any new information they feel they should have mentioned during the meeting. According to the factual situation that the Committee of Public Accounts is in, Fortress forced its way in following the media leak. It was never invited. The witnesses might say to us they believe they...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I am trying to cut to the chase on this. I know it is late. A lot hinges on the competitive bid. As I have said to the witnesses, it was very fortuitous for NAMA that it had a competitive bid as a result of the media leak. That is all I can say on the matter. I am just making that observation. The last thing I want to mention is that Cerberus felt it could pay £1.3 billion and make...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Why did NAMA not hang in? I am just asking the question. It was a NAMA decision. It was nothing to do with the Comptroller and Auditor General. NAMA was satisfied that it had a bidder that was going to pay £1.3 billion. The only reason it was going to do so was that it knew it would make several hundred million out of it. Why did NAMA not try to emulate what Cerberus is now doing?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Okay. I understand that. In fairness to NAMA, this point is not well appreciated. I am going to ask NAMA to send us a note on the restrictions that prevent it from cutting deals with its own debtors. It sold these loans to other companies that had the significant advantage of being able to do that. The Oireachtas legislated in this manner for good reasons.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: It is probable that there are two sides to the story. Following an extensive debate, NAMA was subject to a legal requirement with regard to investing funds that nobody else was subject to. The answer is in the name of the organisation - it is the National Asset Management Agency, rather than the national asset holding agency.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: It has a mandate to act expeditiously. It is possible that the impact of the legislation was that NAMA could not take as long a view as some of the others.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: This is the last point.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: It is in NAMA's interest to educate the public. I am on my last point and I will call Deputy Connolly then. I raised the issue at the previous meeting with Lazard. Could Mr. Daly tell me about the meetings between Cerberus and the Minister for Finance on 31 March? Was NAMA at the meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Was Mr. Daly aware of those meetings?

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