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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: Allied Irish Banks has been criticised for claiming that approximately 20% of its customers are strategic defaulters. There is a difference between a strategic defaulter and a person who is not co-operating. Some of those in the latter category may simply not have any money and cannot, therefore, be described as strategic defaulters. What is the bank's current position on this issue? What...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: The issue of mortgage write-off has garnered considerable publicity recently. Where is this listed under No. 4 on the questionnaire, relating to solutions provided?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: Is Mr. O'Connor prepared to advise the committee as to the number of cases in which there has been an element of debt write-down?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: Does Mr. O'Connor have a figure on the total amount of mortgage debt that has been written off or written down?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: Please do so. I am one of those who raised the issue of consistency. I accept that writing down mortgage debt will be a solution in a certain proportion of cases. It is important that people know the circumstances under which they may be able to avail of such a solution. One can argue, if one writes off sufficient mortgage debt, that almost every mortgage is sustainable. It is important,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: Chairman, I really appreciate that. I welcome Mr. Duffy and his colleagues to this meeting. I thank Mr. Duffy for providing his opening statement and other information in advance, affording us the opportunity to go through it before the meeting. In line with the data provided by the other institutions, there seems to have been a significant ramping up of enforcement activity. Between...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: I understand but it sounds drastic. These people are in arrears of less than 90 days. These mortgages are in some level of difficulty but in many cases they may well be recoverable or can be rescued with a bit of proper treatment. To have more than 3,000 in that category, who are in arrears of less than 90 days but who are heading towards losing their home, sounds like an extremely high figure.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: It is a pretty dramatic statistic that about 10,000 PTSB customers are in court or are heading down that road. It belies what we are hearing from the powers-that-be in the Government that the loss of the home is the absolute last resort. PTSB has 10,000 customers heading down that road and yet it has not completed a single mortgage-to-rent transaction. That may not be the bank's fault but,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: I accept that but it is very clear from the figures that PTSB has ramped up significantly its enforcement activity against borrowers in the last quarter. I accept the witnesses did not have to provide this information but they did so. Up to the end of the first quarter it has initiated court proceedings against about 2,000 borrowers, between PDH and buy-to-let. That is a lot of activity in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: I have some questions for Mr. Masding. The no-fees initiative on current accounts has been very successful from the bank's point of view and from the consumer's point of view, resulting in 60,000 new customers in the past year. How does the bank expect to make money from it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: Is the expectation that those customers will do other business with the bank?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: Will the bank then start charging fees on current accounts within a year or two?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: My final question is about the bank in general. I hope the bank has a viable future. I know that Mr. Masding and his team are working very hard to ensure this. The restructuring plan is still being considered by the European Commission, the bank is laden down with very high levels of mortgage arrears, it has a lot of tracker customers haemorrhaging losses from the point of view of the bank...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: I welcome Mr. Masding and his colleagues before the joint committee this morning. I will start by asking Mr. Masding what percentage of the bank's mortgage customers in arrears simply are not co-operating at all, are stonewalling completely all efforts by the bank to engage or to come up with solutions or are not making any payments? What is the percentage of such customers in this regard?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: It is quite a high figure, that is, in the bank's view as many as one in five of those in arrears are not co-operating with it at present.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: Yes. From the perspective of Permanent TSB, what is a sustainable mortgage? How does the bank define it, how does it measure it and how does it decide that one customer falls on one side of the fence as being unsustainable, while another is deemed to have a sustainable mortgage? What is Permanent TSB's definition?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: On page 4 of the slideshow that was presented in advance, it refers to mortgage arrears resolution targets, MART, and non-MART treatments to the end of the first quarter of 2014. The bank has almost 10,000 cases under the general heading of "closure", which then is broken down further. Can the Mr. O'Sullivan reconcile this with the figures provided on the spreadsheet which, in terms of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: To tease this out a little, if one looks at the spreadsheet, under the heading "legal proceedings", up to the end of quarter 1, that is, the end of March, Permanent TSB has fewer than 7,000 in respect of both PDH and BTL.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: I am on the spreadsheet. It is a single page, showing less than 7,000 such cases, whereas almost 10,000 appear on the PowerPoint slide under the heading of "closure", which means legal proceedings, repossession or assisted voluntary sales. That is an additional 3,000 cases. Mr. O'Sullivan's explanation appears to be that these are outside of MART, which means they are less than 90 days in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process: (Resumed) Permanent TSB and AIB (9 Apr 2014)

Michael McGrath: I am curious about the reason there are more than 3,000 individual cases that are not covered by MART but are under the heading of "legal proceedings". These are people who are in arrears of less than 90 days by definition. As it appears to be a phenomenal figure, can Mr. O'Sullivan explain it?

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