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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: From Cerberus.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Regarding the fees, Mr. Daly seems to be saying to Martin McGuinness that NAMA could not have been aware of the matter of a payment to an individual. I am reading the bit on fees. NAMA said that it could not have been aware of the matter of a payment to an individual. Regarding the previous incarnation of the fixer's fee, though, NAMA had been specifically informed that the payment to...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Correct.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I am asking this question because the recorded phone calls mentioned that the payment was to a named individual. It is strange in a top firm of solicitors that the cheque would go to a named individual. Professional companies do not do their business by making payments to named individuals. NAMA was aware of this from the phone call in March and it was mentioned in the minutes. Did it not...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: NAMA was aware from the time of PIMCO that there was a payment going to Mr. Coulter. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: NAMA was aware of that. I have cited the two references to that in the board's minutes as well as the phone call. But then-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: No, but I understand that it said that it was paying it to Tughans.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: NAMA said that it could not have been aware, but if it had been even a little awake, it could have been aware.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: I accept that NAMA did not have specific knowledge, but it could have been aware.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: NAMA became aware that two of the three portions of the first fee had been earmarked for individuals.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: From PIMCO.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: That should have alerted NAMA when it was seeking an undertaking from Cerberus. That would have been the professional way to-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Be careful, Deputy.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: There is no question of his bona fides. They are-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Deputy, it is accepted that Cerberus did not want people going to someone else.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Cerberus also said that Brown Rudnick had made it clear that it would go to Cerberus' competitors.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: Try not to get into-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Seán Fleming: That point is well stated and the committee will have to assess it.

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