Results 21,621-21,640 of 34,729 for speaker:Seán Fleming
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: I thank the chairman. The following speakers have indicated a wish to speak: Deputies Madigan, Cullinane and Connolly. I ask them to be brief as they only have a few minutes each.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: I ask the Deputy to move on as we have only one hour.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: I call Deputy Cullinane and I remind members that these are five minute slots.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: I have two questions. It was a surprise to most of us to discover that these notes had not been kept. We had seen other detailed contemporaneous notes of lower level or business meetings. I would understand this in a private company, which does not need to keep as many official records and can do what it likes, but I presumed that State bodies had to keep notes of significant board...
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: NAMA constantly raised the issue of the board's discussions, prompting us to follow the witnesses' line of response.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: We made a point of inviting all current and former board members and senior staff. The committee will consider whether this is a good policy for State organisations. Maybe it is, but there is a down side. Sometimes, the organisations can be put at a disadvantage. We have asked about two sets of board minutes, including those from December. It would be important that Mr. Daly said that...
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: So we are now into the subtle distinction that the board can agree something, but it is not a decision of the board. So there are many issues agreed at the board meeting that are not decisions of the board meeting.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Mr. Daly can see-----
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Mr. Daly quoted the line: "The Board agreed to consider the matter of price in conjunction with consideration of the above sales process paper". So it was still up for consideration. However, the minutes of the next meeting indicate it had actually been agreed. Mr. Daly understands the completeness and the accuracy.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: That threw us all along, which is why we asked about those two meetings. They do not fully tally with each other. I get the distinction Mr. Daly is now putting on completeness and accuracy. Finally on the board minutes-----
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Daly to say it slowly - between something being agreed and something being decided.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Even though they are the official records and we cannot undo those, is Mr. Daly saying that where the board meeting of 8 January 2014 refers to the fact that the £1.3 billion sale price was agreed at the 12 December meeting, that is not an exact, accurate position?
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: So it is an agreement, but Mr. Daly has added another layer of confusion.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Mr. Daly is insistent that the minutes are the accurate record. However, taking the minutes precisely as written and when they are tested, there is a bit of an issue there. We will need to consider that. We are now talking about the accuracy and completeness of the board minutes. Have NAMA's minutes ever been tested in court or been part of any litigation between NAMA and anybody else?
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: What was the decision in regard to the outcome of the completeness and accuracy of the NAMA board minutes when they were tested in court?
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Daly to spell out what he is saying.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: They have been referred to in earlier court cases.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: The accuracy and completeness was an issue in earlier court cases.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: There might not have been a specific finding, but it might have been said in the course of evidence. It might have been agreed without a finding that it did not fully reflect how a decision was arrived at. Am I right in interpreting Mr. Daly as saying that one of the reasons these notes are not retained is because they might be discoverable? They are destroyed so that they cannot be discovered.
- Public Accounts Committee: Policy on the Retention of Contemporaneous Notes in the Preparation of Board Minutes: National Asset Management Agency (14 Dec 2016)
Seán Fleming: Or different records of discussions.