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Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: That is good to hear. I will turn to section 38 and section 39 organisations and charities and their compliance with Revenue. There has been some discussion on this matter because there have been a number of HSE audits, which have not been good. I will not go into any of the details of the organisations or name them but I tabled a parliamentary question to capture exactly how many Revenue...

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Sorry, that is only a sample. If that is only a sample, then how many more interventions would there be if this audit was applied to all charities across the State?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: I accept that but the job of this committee is to make sure we improve compliance. We look at the processes and the failures-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: If there is a failure on the PAYE side or the payroll side, what improvements in process is Revenue looking at to ensure these types of interventions can be avoided and to ensure stronger compliance in the charity sector?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: I thank Mr. Rowntree for accepting the invitation to attend and for his opening remarks. I welcome him to the meeting. What is Mr. Rowntree's understanding of the terms of reference and the remit of the Northern Ireland advisory committee of NAMA?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: How many times a year did the Northern Ireland advisory committee meet? How did those meetings go? Will Mr. Rowntree talk us through the structure? What was discussed at a typical meeting? What type of meeting was typical?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Two and a half hours. I want to get to a part of Mr. Rowntree's speech where he talks about conflicts of interest or individual conflicts of interest. In his opening statement, Mr. Rowntree said, "At the NAMA Northern Ireland advisory committee meetings we were not made aware of direct or perceived individual conflicts of interest matters as noted by individual members".

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: He went on to say a declaration of conflicts that is noted in writing at the start of each meeting by each person attending. How does that work in practice?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Did this happen as members were sitting at the meeting or was it-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: It was at the start of each meeting. So members filled in this declaration and gave it to whom?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Mr. Rowntree had his own personal register of interest that he updated on a regular basis as well.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: What is that? Is it electronic format or a file?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: It was personal to each individual.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: What I am taking from what Mr. Rowntree is saying is that he filled in his declaration of conflict of interest if there was any. It was done by Mr. Rowntree.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: It was handed to somebody, through the chair, who had control of it but Mr. Rowntree was not aware of other people's declarations.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Does Mr. Rowntree think that is appropriate?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Will Mr. Rowntree expand on what he means by that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: I accept what Mr. Rowntree says to the effect that conflicts of interest should be an open book. In a "Spotlight" programme shown on 29 February 2016, he said, "It would be fair to say that the information that I witnessed and I heard in NAMA offered commercial opportunity." When he was asked by the presenter, "How valuable would that information have been to a bidder on the Northern...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Given that one of Mr. Rowntree's colleagues had an association with six debtors, who made up 50% of the loan book, and that Mr. Rowntree sat at the meetings with this same individual and given what he just said about the declared conflicts of interest, does he feel a bit let down that the information was not shared with him and others who sat at those meetings?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: When we now know that-----

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