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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: To come back to corporate governance, in Mr. Rowntree's opening statement he said that NAMA as an organisation put in place a robust corporate governance framework. Is this method not at odds with the fact somebody on an advisory committee could operate for six debtors? Does this not show a flaw in corporate governance? Mr. Rowntree said he would not have sat on the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: So it is a very strong conflict.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: In a good corporate governance situation, if those interests were declared would they not have almost automatically excluded the person on the basis of the conflict of interest?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: To go back to the point made and expand on it little, with reference to page 17 of the review of the Northern Ireland Assembly Committee for Finance and Personnel of the sale of NAMA properties in Northern Ireland and the paragraph referenced earlier, which states the committee also noted from the BBC Northern Ireland "Spotlight" programme that Mr. Brian Rowntree stated:...that the NIAC...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: What was the nature of the information that would have given somebody that commercial opportunity?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Were some of these properties with loans in NAMA? I presume they were.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Would it have been identified that they were properties with a NAMA loan attached?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: I want to refer to page 132 of the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. At the end of the page it states:With regard to the proposed acquisition of the NI Debtors Portfolio, PIMCO confirmed the following:They have not completed any due diligence or engaged directly with any NAMA debtors in this regard; PIMCO’s analysis was conducted by way of reverse engineering...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: I am looking at when the approach appears to have come almost packaged to NAMA via the two finance Ministers. It looks to me - if I am reading it correctly - as though there was a significant amount of information in advance of engagement with NAMA in putting together this portfolio. Would that be how Mr. Rowntree would read it?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Okay, was the university undertaking that-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Would the University of Ulster have valued the assets or would it have given an indication?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Can the witness indicate when the work was completed by the university?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Obviously Mr. Rowntree was aware of the terms of reference for NAMA for an open process and getting the best return for taxpayers etc.-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: He says in his statement that he was updated on the original interest expressed by PIMCO. Was Mr. Rowntree surprised that what was being proposed was a deviation and that it was going to be a one-bidder process?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Right.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: When Mr. Rowntree states that he was updated on the interest expressed by PIMCO, was PIMCO named at that stage?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Was it fairly soon after that when the information would have become available from the university?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: That completes my queries, I will leave it there. I thank the witness.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: On the work done by the University of Ulster with NAMA and the other banks, is that how 50% of the assets or loans were outside Northern Ireland? It would not have included any of that information, or would it?

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