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Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank the Chairman for the opportunity to address the committee. I am accompanied today by colleagues from the Department who have been involved in developing the range of options as set out in the rainy day fund consultation paper. I begin by providing some background and context to the proposal on the setting up of a rainy day fund. The concept was originally mooted by my predecessor as...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: Does the Chairman want me to speak on-----

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I will deal with each of them in turn. With regard to whether there are any other examples of countries that are well advanced in doing this kind of work with a European setting, the answer is "No". When we commence this work in terms of putting together a fund, we will be in the first wave of countries that are looking to carry out this work well. In terms of compliance with fiscal rules,...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I am not aware of any such discussions in other countries. Even if those discussions are beginning to develop, they have not got to the point of causing discussion in either Eurogroup or ECOFIN meetings. When our thinking is more advanced on this in the next few months, I believe we will be one of the countries, if not the first country, to raise this matter.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: What exist in other countries are contingency reserves set aside on a by-department basis.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank the Deputy. Regarding the first question, I would not anticipate that the contingency reserve fund could be used to fund precautionary work. In any Department, precautionary work that needs to be delivered should be part of the normal Estimates process. In my experience of dealing with these matters now, precautionary work and the objective of preventing future difficulties can be...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: Just let me finish answering the question. If I have the Deputy's question wrong, I will deal with that. As I said, if I was to include that as a use of the contingency reserve fund, I think I would never get it set up and it would be in withdrawal all the time.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy is correct regarding that particular event but I do not believe investment in precautionary measures would offset the need for a reserve fund in the future. That is for two reasons. The first is the variety of different events that might require use of a contingency fund. In the papers I referred to a natural phenomenon. For example, what would happen if we had another episode...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I am only in the early days of making-----

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I am only in the early days of answering questions on this and already I am being interrupted by Deputy Broughan. I look forward to answering his questions in a moment but I will continue answering the questions put to me by Deputy O'Brien. For that reason, I do not believe that investment in precautionary measures will offset the need for a reserve fund in the future. Regarding...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I agree with the Deputy's first point that it must be counter-cyclical. Her second point indicates the difficulty in this regard. I have never had anybody in this Dáil calling on me to spend less. It never happens. All the demands - many of them legitimate - are to spend more. That is why it is valuable to have a precursory discussion about the matter before we move to the...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: The moment somebody comes up with a serious idea of how we could spend less in a Department, I would appreciate it if I could get a call so I could at least be there to hear it. The Deputy spoke about the number of years involved with putting together the rainy day fund and the opportunity cost, and this is the challenge we will face. The moment this or a future Government starts setting...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I have a brief response. My expectation is that the easily measurable and more easily quantifiable interplay between the setting up of a rainy day fund and use in the here and now will probably be the choice we will face regarding whether we set up a rainy day fund or pay down debt. There will be an opportunity cost in doing this and we will struggle to quantify it because it will mean not...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: When historians look back at the verdict on the former Minister, Deputy Michael Noonan, they will see that he was a Minister who, despite the profound crisis facing the country, made choices that enabled the country and our society get to a point the Deputy said we would never reach.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy is someone who for many years-----

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy is someone who for many years said-----

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: -----the recovery that is now happening would not happen and that the economic resources now in place would never be available.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: On his contribution and all of the contributions he makes, I agree with him on the level of need and the many challenges we face in public services, whether it be health or housing, and I am committed to addressing them. On the same side of the coin let us also acknowledge that we are now in a position where it is very likely later this year that we will have more people at work than we ever...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: It is unlikely that it will make a significant return. One of the reasons for having it is that one would be able to access it if it was needed. If one is to access it when one needs it particularly quickly, it means that there will be a trade-off in that regard in terms of a return. It would be a low level of return versus longer term options that would be open to the State.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Proposal to Establish a Rainy Day Fund: Minister for Finance (31 Jan 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: It depends on the type of instrument involved. We would be able to access money in a matter of days if we needed it.

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