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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Yes, it is very short. Dr. Smith compiled her reports and produced a figure of €3.2 million for allowances and €912,000 for externally funded salaries. That was in respect of which year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I do not think there will be any Christmas holidays for the HSE this year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Nine agencies and 29 people are involved, and €346,561 was contributed to private pension schemes. That ranged between 4% and 46% of their pay. How did that situation arise, how was it allowed to continue and how is it still continuing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: What are those agencies?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Where did their percentages fall between 4% and 46%?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Can we take it that this matter will be resolved and that these agencies will come into the public schemes?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: When people are out fund-raising for all these agencies and they see a situation, regardless of its merits or demerits, with this level of pension contribution into private schemes from public funds, there is a major question mark. Under section E, non-compliance, there are 12 agencies confirmed in letter and identified under "no approvals submitted for deviations from payroll pay policy."...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: So they wrote back in defiance to the HSE saying, "This is what we are paying; you can like it or lump it. We are not answerable to the HSE." Do those 12 agencies have service level agreements with the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Mr. O'Brien is missing the point. We have a job here, as public representatives of the people on the ground who are dealing with the agencies every day of the week, many of them out fund-raising. This issue is dominating with regard to salaries. I am more concerned about the funding that goes to front-line services. I want this matter sorted. This is not a proper use of either Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Someone was a little over-enthusiastic with the headline they gave on any non-compliance. Is that not the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Then what exactly is the position?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Then what have they told the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: The HSE has written to them nine times. These are intelligent people running these organisations. The power lies with the HSE within the service level agreement to ensure compliance. The HSE's service plan has gone to the Minister. Feeding out of that are the service plans for each of these agencies. These agencies and the people working in them do great work. This is a distraction from...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: When?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: So Mr. O'Brien is talking about the next four weeks.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Does Mr. O'Brien expect that, starting from 1 January next year, all the organisations will be compliant with the national service plan and the service level agreements?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Those are business cases being put forward, etc.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: These agencies appear to be ignoring the HSE. It wrote to them nine times in various forms since March 2011. What is the HSE's level of control and why are they ignoring it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: The elephant in the room is the service plan. The service plans of these organisations must be approved by the HSE.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: The service plan.

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