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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: No, it is not just the sentence. It is the logic of the minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: It is very important.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I have followed the logic through, and Mr. McDonagh has to bear with me. We have followed the logic through, where that is correct. We then moved into the part where the minutes talk about the need for full transparency. That is what PIMCO said. It disclosed the success fee arrangement and it was very clear it was a three way split between Brown Rudnick solicitors, Tughans and Frank...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: No, but I am asking Mr. McDonagh to accept that point. That is what the discussion was about.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: That is what I am establishing.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I am following the logic of the minutes. That is all I am doing. The logic of the minutes is that PIMCO legal informed NAMA of the existence of a success fee, that it was negotiated by PIMCO's commercial team and that PIMCO disclosed that it was a three way breakdown between Frank Cushnahan, Tughans and Brown Rudnick. The minutes talked earlier about the negotiation and mentioned it again,...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I accept that and I will come to that. My point is there was a reference to the April 2013 date. All of the context is in relation to the success fees and the relationship between Brown Rudnick, Tughans and Frank Cushnahan. That is the context. I have a question for Mr. McDonagh. What was the board's view of the timeline of Frank Cushnahan's involvement with Brown Rudnick and...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: No. I am asking for the board's view and not the personal view of Mr. McDonagh.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I must press Mr. McDonagh on this.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Sorry. My question was quite precise because I am not interested in a long answer.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Please bear with me, Mr. McDonagh. My question is very specific because I am trying to follow the logic. What was Mr. McDonagh's view of the board's understanding of the timeline-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: -----of Frank Cushnahan's involvement with Brown Rudnick and Tughans on the date of 13 March?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I ask Mr. McDonagh to answer my question.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Why then does the reference in the minutes say "and noted further that Frank Cushnahan had not resigned as a member of the Northern Ireland Advisory Committee until 7th November 2013 nor had he made any disclosure of his involvement"? If that was the view of the board, it would not have put that in there.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: If I am to believe that response and what Mr. McDonagh has just said that at this meeting he was aware of the three-way split between Brown Rudnick, Tughans and Frank Cushnahan. He was also aware of the previous association of Mr. Cushnahan with six debtors. He then said he formed an opinion that his relationship started with Tughans and Brown Rudnick after he was a member of the NIAC. The...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I am not talking about Mr. Hanna.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Mr. McDonagh is telling me that his understanding is on the basis of the information he gave but what I am trying to establish is-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: With respect, the knowledge Mr. McDonagh had at that time on 13 March at that meeting was that there was a three-way split that involved Mr. Cushnahan. He had an association with debtors. Mr. McDonagh then says he formed a view that any association with Brown Rudnick and Tughans was when he left. The concern would have been that surely there was a possibility that he had an association...

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