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Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: What is the name of the account?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: If it is laid before the Oireachtas we will ask for it to be circulated to members during the week so we can have a look at it.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: It does not cover it.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: We will get a copy of the information. Another point has been mentioned in passing regarding people in long-term care. There are many people in long-term care in the disabilities sector or psychiatric services. They may not come under the scheme we are discussing. Will the witnesses comment on the people in the care of the HSE not covered by the nursing home support scheme? There must be...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: No, I am talking about the nursing home support scheme.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: The public might think we are covering the entire population of people in long-term, permanent HSE accommodation. We will probably ask the witnesses to send us a note on what other categories of people are not included in this scheme. We seem to have missed out on that. I know it is outside the nursing home scheme but there are people in long-term care in institutions. How is the HSE...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is probably from where I am coming. How much relates to residential care?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: How much is being spent on nursing home support?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: There is as much money allocated for long-term residential care of those with disabilities as for nursing home support.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Healy to provide a detailed note on this issue because when a committee such as the Committee of Public Accounts examines these issues we often mistakenly believe we are capturing the full picture. The amount spent on long-term residential care for disabled people may be similar to the amount spent on the fair deal scheme. We do not often discuss this topic, which is probably...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Typically, what would be the cost of a complex case in the private sector? Is the figure to which I alluded out of the ordinary?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Healy will understand that this includes an important group of people who have not come on to the committee's radar. While other committees are probably examining the issue, it is important that we have an understanding of the full picture. That is all I am suggesting in this regard. On the nursing home support scheme, the document provided refers at paragraph 4.3 to the...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: The HSE cannot pay the private provider for them.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Ms Noonan indicated the HSE is carrying out a review of the fair deal scheme. It is fine to talk about the assets but let us talk about the people in nursing homes who do not have incontinence wear covered. I am sure that is top of the list of the review. What is Ms Noonan's view on the matter?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: As the witnesses will understand, I specifically linked the question to medical cards. All elderly people aged over 70 years are entitled to a medical card. My impression is that when people in private nursing homes seek some of these items or services, the operator will say they cost extra as they are not covered under the fair deal scheme. Do the witnesses get my point? These items are...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Is that through nursing homes?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Healy knows which nursing home is the most expensive and it is Abbeyleix. Most nursing homes cost between €1,000 and €1,800 per week per resident, with a couple of them costing more than €2,000. In my home county, however, the facility in Abbeyleix costs €4,082 per patient per week and St. Brigid's nursing home, Shaen, €2,584. The witnesses are no...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Healy is confirming that it is the HSE's long-term intention to close the facility as a long-term care facility.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: He said it is short-stay and has two patients left in it. That has never been said before. The HSE pulled back from that in the High Court.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Seán Fleming: It will provide respite and short-term care.

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