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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: It is essential that we learn, and the learning will go well beyond this project. I imagine there will be learning across the board for capital projects.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: I reappointed it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: I can briefly reply.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: The reason the steering group structure was put in place in 2017 relates to the fact that we have three different elements going on here. We have the integration of three hospitals and the legislation and bringing together involved in that. It is a major body of work to take three voluntary hospitals and put them into one statutory hospital. Many people thought it would never happen but it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: That is the first point. The second point I make is one I made clear in my letters to the members when I reappointed the board in 2017 for continuity as the project was under way. I pointed out that the Oireachtas would shortly pass legislation giving me the power to appoint a different board should I choose to do so. It is a power I have today and it is one on which I will reflect when I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: No, it was not. It was a reminder to them that factually the Oireachtas was about to give me a new power to reappoint or appoint a different board. I have that power today thanks to these Houses of the Oireachtas. The people on the board were reappointed for a term running to 2023 but they were reappointed in the knowledge that the new legislation would trump such reappointments. I must...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: I will ask the Secretary General to give his perspective on that. My perspective is that the structures were put in place for the purpose of co-ordinating those three distinct bodies of work.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: My view is very clear that the Accounting Officer for the project is the Secretary General, Mr. Breslin, who under law is Accounting Officer for the health Vote. That was the point Mr. Robert Watt made to the committee. It is a matter for it to decide how it wants to pursue that matter. I understand Mr. Watt is accountable to committees of the Houses, including the Committee on Budgetary...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: I do not deny anything, but I do know that €983 million was the projected cost of delivering the hospital project on the St James's Hospital site. We are comparing the projected cost in 2017 of delivering the hospital project on the St. James's Hospital site with the projected cost now. We are not comparing the cost with the cost of delivering the project on any other site....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: It is not that I deny it; I have yet to see a report or expert opinion that suggests it is the case.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: Where is the evidence? If it is evident, it being a variation of the word "evidence", where is the evidence?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: Where is the report?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: No, I am in love with evidence.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: I am.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: No, it is not. I do not question the bona fides of the people concerned and have no intention of getting into a conversation in which their bona fides would be questioned. Some were of the view that it should be built on the site of Connolly Hospital, while others, including a former Taoiseach, were of the view it should be built on the Mater hospital site. Some were of view that it should...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: To answer the first question, I will take the appropriate action on who are the appropriate people to oversee the project when I get the PwC report. I did not come here today to create headlines on how I will react when I get the report. I will get it, read it, publish it and take very swift action on what changes, if any, I believe are needed at that time. With regard to the complete...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: In fairness, if we commission external reports to follow the evidence, that is what we will do. We will come back and share all of the information with the committee. In my earlier answers to Deputy Donnelly, I outlined there are opportunities to try to mitigate costs. I have spoken about the existing assets in place, Crumlin hospital being one. I have also spoken about the role of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: I thank Deputy Brassil. here are a couple of questions there. In respect of the GMP, it is important to note this was a strategy going back as far as 2014. The Government contracts committee for construction also considered it. While there is no doubt that the Mazars report found considerable shortcomings in terms of the lack of early warning and so on, the report still arrived at the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: I hope the focus is not going to be entirely on the costs, although I understand that is going to be an issue. I hope the clinical benefits, which Deputy Brassil understands more than most and of which he is very supportive, will also be an issue this committee will monitor closely. In closing on that question, I need to say that I do not want the committee to get the impression that the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Simon Harris: The second review is on the governance. In the interests of both time and the taxpayer, I decided to be led by the outcome of the PwC review, which will highlight where the problems were and the shortcomings. I will then decide on the new governance structures as appropriate. That is the sequence in which I have decided to take it. On the expectation of future costs-----

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