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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: I am not misinterpreting the figures. What I am telling the Minister comes from the Banking and Payments Federation's reports. They are telling us that there were 3,399 mortgage approvals in September 2016. Of those, 1,605 were for first-time buyers. If we measured that out over a 12-month period, we would see a figure for first-time buyers' mortgage approvals of 19,260. There would be...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: That is fine, but I am in possession of-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: I agree 100%-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: No, but they could be off the Richter scale if we have to pay the bill. The reality is that we have the Central Bank's figures.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: No, I am not. The point is-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: I will, if I can finish without interruption. The point I am making is that there are 1,605 first-time buyers getting mortgage approvals every single month. I made the point earlier on that they are not buying new homes. The reality is that they are buying second-hand homes. The Central Bank provided figures from last year that showed that first-time buyers only bought 756 homes. I know...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister did not respond to any of the comments I made. The key point I was trying to make is that if the current cohort of individuals who are receiving mortgage approvals and defined as first-time buyers purchase new homes, there will be 19,260 new homes bought in a calendar year by first-time buyers-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: Will the Minister repeat that? Is it mortgage sanctions to first-time buyers?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, they are buying new houses.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: That is the current scenario or the historic position. The point I make is the other portion of the 1,600 getting mortgage approvals who are buying second-hand homes. We can accept that. The Minister has introduced a €20,000 tax incentive, which is an enticement to purchase new builds. It is what the measure is aimed at, thus increasing supply at that end. The point I make is that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: There is another point as, in fairness, he answered Deputy Donnelly and the conversation went on. When the Central Bank introduced the macroprudential rules, it is indicated in the question-and-answer document it released to the public that one of the reasons for the introduction of the rules, including the loan-to-value ratio, was that it wanted to ensure we did not have a spiral in house...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: To be accurate, the Minister did not show this scheme to the Governor of the Central Bank. He informed us he was not consulted on the substance of the scheme, bar-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: It has been a trend that the Minister interrupts me when I am trying to make a comment.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: The Governor of the Central Bank has been clear to this committee and me that he was consulted only on the issue of whether this grant or tax rebate would be included in calculating the loan-to-value ratio. He was not consulted on other matters and we know the outflow from that, which is that the loan-to-value ratio included in the original scheme, which was 80%, is now 70%. It is important...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister argues that the scheme is for starter homes. Is it his view that starter homes cost up to €500,000?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister is not legislating for Dublin.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: Under the macro-prudential rules, borrowers must have a minimum deposit of 10% when buying houses priced at €220,000 or less and a higher rate applies when the prices exceeds €220,000. These rules were introduced to try to suppress house prices, which is one of the Central Bank's objectives.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister is wrong and in that regard I refer to him the Central Bank's website. It refers to the emergence of a credit fuelled property bubble, trying to control house prices, etc. This is clearly spelled out. Suppressing house prices was not a consequence of the rules but one of their objectives. On the amendment, this change is obviously an example of new politics. The Fine Gael...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister's argument does not stack up. While I agree with his point on the black economy, one could argue that the scheme will encourage a black economy in certain areas where property prices exceed the new threshold. One could also argue that people are being incentivised to borrow more money. The key issue is that the ostensible purpose of the scheme is to increase the supply of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (9 Nov 2016)

Pearse Doherty: If I may, I will finish the point. What the Minister is doing in legislation is basically setting a ceiling for starter home prices across the State by allowing people to benefit by up to €20,000 when buying a property costing below the ceiling. This means prices can rise to the level of the ceiling, which is wrong because it will encourage a faster rate of increase in house prices.

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