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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: For clarification and in the context of the €1 million, one individual colluded with regard-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: Yes. The person potentially colluded with regard to facilitating multiple claims on the part of other individuals. Is that the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: So one individual is at the centre of the matter-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: -----but there are potentially multiple claims in respect of other people involved.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: So that is what we are dealing with here.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: Will we give them a few minutes to see if they can come up with a figure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: Thank you. I invite Ms O'Donoghue to make her opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: Thank you. May we publish Ms O'Donoghue's opening statement?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: Also in attendance is Mr. Menton from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: I ask the Comptroller and Auditor General to make his opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

John Deasy: I was asked to inquire about the appearance of Ms Niamh Brennan at the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

John Deasy: I apologise for the delay. The Chairman will be back and I am taking his place until his return. We are examining the 2012 Appropriation Accounts and annual report of the Comptroller and Auditor and General: chapter 16 - expenditure on welfare and employment schemes; chapter 17 - regularity of social welfare payments; chapter 18 - welfare overpayment debts; chapter 19 - domiciliary care...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

John Deasy: Are we in danger of spreading ourselves too thinly as a committee by extending our remit and losing focus on what the committee was established to do in the first place? Its function is to hold the Departments to account on a regular basis and directing the time and schedule we have to that end. I warn against extending artificially our remit to bodies that, frankly, do not come under our...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

John Deasy: If one takes transport, the Chairman has made the point himself about the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications. With all due respect to Deputy Fleming and notwithstanding all the points he has made, the normal course with regard to Bus Éireann would be that when the Department of Transport attends, members ask questions of its officials on the moneys it gives to that company....

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

John Deasy: Fair enough.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

John Deasy: I think this is getting petty. I understand that the Chairman has been specifically mentioned in this letter but if the committee engages in a tit-for-tat every time somebody writes a letter, I am not sure we are going anywhere. We should focus on compellability. If a claim is being made, that is fair enough but for us to start forwarding transcripts to the Revenue Commissioners, we are in...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

John Deasy: I acknowledge that the Chairman has mentioned this documentation is in draft form. Ms Mellissa English is not here today. Perhaps we could be told what individuals, bodies, agencies and Departments will be compelled to attend. Is there a list?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

John Deasy: Therefore, we are seeking to compel Ms Kerins, Mr. Flannery, Rehab, HSE and SOLAS. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

John Deasy: Did we agree at the last meeting that we would contact the HSE with regard to the information it knew about? Has the clerk done that? What exactly have we ascertained?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

John Deasy: Could the Chairman repeat what he said with regard to those public bodies and the Data Protection Act?

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