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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: If it is appropriate, Chair, that is not why the national drugs strategy was brought in. The strategy has been around for a long time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: It is the version in my hand I am talking about. The war on drugs is criminalisation. Does the Minister of State understand that that is what that means? It is a reference to criminalisation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: As a politician that stands over policy, does the Minister of State understand that the war on drugs is about the criminalisation of people who use drugs? Does he believe drug users are criminals?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: It is not about stigmatisation. I am going to have to outline the basics. The war on drugs is an American system that came through the UN treaty. If the Minister of State goes back right to the 1970s, to his party, Fine Gael, and to the Fianna Fáil Party, he will see the conversation on what the war on drugs means and where the drugs legislation came from. It originates from the UN...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: I want to make the point that criminalisation cannot be uncoupled from a health-led approach and they cannot be offered up as two separate themes. They are intrinsically linked. We do not reduce harm or increase happiness unless we stop labelling and criminalising people for their drug use.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: I did not interrupt Deputy Durkan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: The working group received 22,000 submissions on decriminalisation. The evidence to the working group on decriminalisation was overwhelming, but the committee ignored it on the basis that we are not Portugal. Was the main conversation at that meeting that the Garda did not want to give up its powers to stop and search?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: Exactly, and we are politicians, and we make legislation. As a legislator, does the Minister of State realise what the situation is in respect of stop and search powers?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: It is not about normalising drugs; it is about people and what they do in their lives, their agency, their supports and their networks. It is about not excluding them from society because of their choice to take drugs. It is about fixing the poverty and inequality in communities where we have chaotic drug use. The Minister of State's statement was very strong, so much so that I texted him...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: It is a very important sentence.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: The Department of Health does not favour decriminalisation. Is the Minister of State saying that the Department supports and stands over the criminalisation of people for their drug use?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: We do not have a health-led approach because we criminalise people for their drug use.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: I know I am coming in hard, but the Minister of State must remember that I do not visit a treatment centre and ask people if they support legalisation. What I do is I ask my friends if they think they are criminals. If I ask the father of my child if he is a criminal for his drug use, he will say "No". I do not ask people if they think drugs should be legalised. We have to be careful...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: Then legalise it and then we will remove that. Let us have the conversation on legalisation. We gave them the market. We gave drug dealers the market.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: It is not evidence based. The working group ignored the evidence that was presented to it on criminalisation. It ignored the evidence so do not tell me that this policy is evidence based. It was one of three scenarios put forward and it was not the one that had the most evidence.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: It is not an opinion; it is a choice.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: Basically, there is a drug disparity that health-led approaches are prohibitionist. We will also have that discussion. We have a prohibitionist drugs Minister.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: It is the opposite.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: I will not be too long. Perhaps Mr. Walsh is better off answering my question, which is a continuation of the conversation with Deputy Hourigan and adds to it. Maybe there is nothing in it, but Mr. Walsh has emphasised a couple of times that there was funding there for the company. It is just an odd phrase to use because usually one would say the funding is there for the task force. I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Drugs Strategy: Minister of State at the Department of Health (19 Jan 2022)

Lynn Ruane: I just wanted to figure that out. Being a chair of the task force, I am familiar with the SLA process and sat in those meetings recently in terms of the canal. Is there an issue with the current SLA, as it is being presented? Are there changes in this SLA, in comparison with the SLAs which used to be signed? They would usually be quite predictable and I wonder what the delay is in the...

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