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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Was there any fallout, personally or individually, in the transition from the 33 vocational education committees, VECs to the 16 education and training board, ETBs? In my area there was an amalgamation in terms of the Carlow-Kilkenny ETB? Were there any bad feelings about the transition process?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I want to move on to the issue of corporate governance. There is a big spend in each ETB, The reason we have representatives of the ETBs before us today is that some of them are performing very well in audits and are up to date. I can hold up Carlow-Kilkenny ETB in my area as an example. I am delighted it has submitted its audits for 2015 and 2016. It is leading the way in that respect....

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I am not proposing that the students would suffer but a penalty should apply to people who are not coming up to scratch.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: What excuses have the ETBs that have not submitted accounts going back to 2015 and 2014 given for not submitting them and showing where and how they are spending their allocated money? I do not want any student to suffer because of mismanagement by the boards, but there should be some mechanism in place to ensure people are efficient and come up to scratch. Can we pinpoint why they have not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Is Mr. Ó Foghlú hoping that all the ETBs will have their audits submitted within six months of the previous year? Is that what he is aiming for? That would be what I would call proper governance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: There are four ETBs that have not submitted audits since 2015.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I wish to move on to the issue of deficits and I am looking at all the reports before us. Is there a control in terms of governance on the amount a board can have in loans and if it is allowed to have loans at the end of the year, how are they paid for, or what system is used to pay off the loans? Has the Department a limit on what the 16 ETBs can borrow per area? How does it define how...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Do the ETBs have to get permission from the Department to run a deficit or to take out a loan and with respect to the size of that loan? Did they have to get permission from the Department before they look for it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Must they show a business plan as to how they will pay it off? Is it audited?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Many buildings and properties are either owned or leased by the education and training boards, ETBs. The cost of leases would be expensive in Dublin compared to the south east or the north west. What is the Department's policy on leases?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Yes, but also to schools.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Is the Department the oversight body to ensure everything is being done according to procedure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Can we keep going until the bells go?

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: The Secretary General of the Department presumably has some responsibility and can give some advice. I have never seen such hesitation in all my life as I have seen sitting here for the past hour.

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I cannot hear half of what is going on.

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I do not accept the witnesses are here in a voluntary capacity. They are here because they are spending taxpayers' money. It is not voluntary.

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I think at this stage we probably need to get legal advice ourselves to know what we can actually do. We are after hitting a brick wall and we seem to be going nowhere. We need to move this on.

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I do not think I have ever questioned witnesses who have come before the Committee of Public Accounts at 7.15 p.m. on a Thursday. If we stay any longer, it is beds we will want. That is the way we are going. At this hour of the night everyone is getting tired so I will be quick and fast. I will address my questions to both ETBs. Why were the audits late, in Tipperary's case in 2015 and...

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: It was not the first time.

Public Accounts Committee: Tipperary Education and Training Board and Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Bobby Aylward: What plans do Mr. Hogan and Mr. Ruttle have to create more efficiencies within their respective ETBs? Since they became the chairpersons of the ETBs, what have they done to ensure both ETBs are operating effectively? This question is along the same lines. What have they done? What are they going to do in the future to make sure there are efficiencies?

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