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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Yet it never triggered anything. It never asked questions about governance.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Why did it not do something about it then, if it was not sure about what was going on either in the president's office or indeed anywhere else?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: So it got €30,000 each year.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: I understand that. However, surely at some stage someone looking at governance within the institute would have come up with a query on, for example, the president's office and how it reports its cost centre. It is referred to as a cost centre there. That cost centre is called the president's office but I have noticed that within that there is all kinds of promotional material going on,...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: The governing body or the internal audit committee did not raise that issue. They just proceeded with the general governance arrangements that were in place, and nobody else raised it either, in terms of the Comptroller and Auditor General or the Deloitte report.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: I am not interested in systems. There are people operating those systems. We are tired of hearing about systems in this committee. People were operating the systems of management and those who were overseeing those systems did not raise an issue or ring any bell. The Department did not pick up on it and neither did the HEA. Things went merrily along until such time as a financial issue...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: It was queried by the secretary to the financial controller.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Right. Who signed off on that invoice?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: This is the invoice for Bel-Airways Limited, and the address, for €4,200. We will not mention the person's name, but it was queried by the secretary. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Therefore there was the possibility of queries being raised on any of these invoices, and the query was raised. When it was being signed off, the only signature I can see on this is the finance manager's.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: I understand that but the fact is that the finance manager was in charge. That person, whoever it is, had to sign off and had to be satisfied. I am sure he or she would not put their signature to this without giving it consideration. It was considered. A query was raised, yet it was signed off by the finance person.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: At the outset, I acknowledge the work undertaken by Mr. Quigley and the fact that he has done it without charge. At a previous meeting, we acknowledged his valuable work at the Valuation Office. He is an excellent public servant. One does not come across that type of contribution often. I also wish to acknowledge the work being done by WIT in terms of its development, its students, its...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Apologies for interrupting Deputy Nash, but in that instance the person involved was not a staff member but the chairman.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: I thank Dr. Neavyn. May we publish your statement?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: At our last meeting we asked for one opening statement which would deal with all of the issues raised and I understand that Dr. Neavyn will give that statement. I invite you to do that now.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Can we agree the agenda for Thursday, 17 October? We have two meetings scheduled for that day. At 10 a.m. we will meet representatives of Forfás to examine its annual accounts and at noon we will meet representatives of Ordnance Survey Ireland to examine its annual accounts. A number of issues were raised at previous meetings of the committee at which the Accounting Officer was to...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: We are now dealing with Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (resumed). Before we begin, I again remind members, witnesses and those in the Visitors Gallery to turn off all mobile phones as the interference from them affects the sound quality and broadcast transmission of the meeting. Witnesses are protected by absolute...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: I ask Mr. Tom Boland to introduce his officials.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: I call on the Comptroller and Auditor General to introduce the report.

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