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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Mr. Daly also contends that he was not made aware of this in March 2014.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: On 10 March 2014 was Mr. Daly then made aware that PIMCO was approached by Tuvi Keinan and Mr. Cushnahan - all of the facts that Mr. Daly says-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: That is what I am trying to establish. Mr. Daly is saying that on 10, 11 and 12 March 2014 he was not made aware of the issues that he outlined in his opening statement. The association that PIMCO had with Mr. Cushnahan-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: April 2013.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Mr. Daly has stated he did not know that. Can page 118 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report be displayed on screen? It is a copy of an extract of signed minutes of the board's meeting of 13 March 2014.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Mr. Daly can see from the extract that there is discussion where NAMA's legal people had been in contact with PIMCO's legal people. There is a discussion around the potential payment which was going to be split three ways between Brown Rudnick, solicitors, Tughans, solicitors, and Frank Cushnahan. The discussion was in that context. The minutes go on to state: "The Board noted that PIMCO...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: If it just finished in terms of April 2013 that maybe is an interpretation, but the minutes further noted that Frank Cushnahan had not resigned.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: It is not just my interpretation. The problem we have is that PIMCO set out a different set of circumstances. We asked the questions of PIMCO. What is in these board minutes, which is a record of notes that were taken, chimes perfectly with what PIMCO is saying to us in its letter.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Mr. Daly had known.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I have to clarify this. On 10 March 2014 when NAMA was first made aware by PIMCO of the success fees, Mr. Daly was told about Frank Cushnahan's involvement.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Yes. Exactly.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I am making that point because these are minutes of a meeting of 13 March 2014.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: If Mr. Daly would bear with me because this is very important. Timelines are very important. I am referring to the minutes of a meeting of 13 March. Mr. Daly was first made aware of the success fee arrangement and the connection between Mr. Cushnahan, Brown Rudnick and Tughans on 10 March.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: The minutes of the meeting of 13 March refer to the date of April 2013, which is what chimes perfectly with what PIMCO is saying to us.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: When several of the board members appeared before the committee they all expressed shock when they found out about this and were first informed of the success fee on 10 March 2013 at that first board meeting. They expressed shock on finding out that there was an arrangement between Mr. Cushnahan, Tughans and Brown Rudnick. I find it extraordinary that NAMA would not have asked PIMCO of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: They were told Mr. Cushnahan was involved. Let us leave that hanging for the moment. Mr. Daly knows the importance of that, as Mr. Cushnahan was still a board member-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: No he was not then, but he was still a board member when there would have been the first association. The first question one would ask is at what point did Mr. Cushnahan interact with PIMCO? That would have been very relevant. PIMCO is saying that he interacted with it when he was still a board member. One would try to establish those facts. The question I am asking Mr. Daly is did NAMA...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: That is a very basic question to ask.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: It is not just my view. It is a very basic question to ask. I am sorry Mr. Daly-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: -----but this was a shocking development that he was made aware of. It would have been more shocking and, in fact, potentially illegal if Mr. Cushnahan had been connected with Brown Rudnick, Tughans and PIMCO when he was still a board member. Mr. Daly is telling us that he was just told there was an association but he never asked PIMCO when that happened and it never volunteered that...

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