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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: We have not received any apologies. Members participating in the meeting remotely are required to do so from within the precincts of the Leinster House complex only. I ask that members and witnesses turn off their mobile phones as they interfere with the broadcasting equipment. I ask members of the committee who are participating remotely to please use the raise hand icon on Microsoft...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: What of the fee aspect?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: Rather than Irish ones, even though their yields were better.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: Has that engagement taken place with the Department of Finance?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: The point is if people own their own houses, the level of income they will need when they reach retirement will be far less than for those who rent. The percentage of working income that people have on retirement will need to be higher if they are renting. Has that assessment been taken into account in the Department's calculations?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: No. However, based on studies done by the ESRI, by the time many people go into automatic enrolment at the age of 23, 24 or 25, the probability of them owning their own property and not having to pay either rent or a mortgage once they retire is far less than for those who will retire in the next 20 years, for argument's sake. If we are looking at a long-term retirement plan, that needs to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: Does Deputy Donnelly want to come in on that aspect? We are running tight on time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: It is approximately two thirds in education to one third working.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: Mr. Duggan is saying that-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: -----this does not stop those 100,000 people aged 16 to 23 who are in full-time work from opting in to automatic enrolment. However, will there be pressure on them not to opt in because of the potential cost to their employers? If there are two employees, one of whom has not opted voluntarily for automatic enrolment and another who wishes to opt in, could the latter be discouraged from...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: Deputy Ó Cathasaigh is next. Does anyone else have a supplementary question before we wrap up? No.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: I thank the Deputy. Perhaps Mr. Duggan would address those comments and make any final comments before we finish the session.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings Scheme Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: I thank Mr. Duggan and his colleagues for their assistance in considering the heads of the Bill, and for their constructive and positive engagement with the committee. We will discuss these matters further in a later private session. I thank them for their assistance to date to the committee and to the secretariat. I am sure we will engage again with Mr. Duggan and the Department early in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Community Welfare Service: Department of Social Protection (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: The second session has been convened to discuss the community welfare service. I welcome Mr. Rónán Hession, assistant secretary with responsibility for working age and family policy, Mr. Des Henry, principal officer with responsibility for supplementary welfare allowance policy, and Mr. Noel Hand, principal officer with responsibility for the community welfare service. The...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Community Welfare Service: Department of Social Protection (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: We can come back to it with a comparable data set across a couple of work units within the Department or within the witness's own division to give us an example of the variation over a period of time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Community Welfare Service: Department of Social Protection (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: We all accept the community welfare officer service plays a valuable role and, as colleagues have said, provides a key point of contact with the health service initially and now the Department of Social Protection since it moved across. I recall individuals such as Eddie Bourke in Strokestown and previously in south Roscommon, who knew not only the family, but also the previous generation...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Community Welfare Service: Department of Social Protection (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: In that particular case I submitted the supplementary evidence by email one month ago. The Department has had it for a month from me directly, where I explained the whole circumstance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Community Welfare Service: Department of Social Protection (14 Dec 2022)

Denis Naughten: Deputy Kerrane wants to come in so I will leave this final point with Mr. Hand. The difficulty is that probably a lot of those staff are coming from other sections within the Department, where there is a culture of control, naturally enough, in respect all schemes where they tick the boxes as regards to whether people are eligible. Maybe the culture needs to change in that engagement...

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