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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Did everyone get the letter? I would like the committee to invite the State's chief procurement officer because he can add all sorts of value in respect of process and procedures to our consideration of how money is spent on infrastructure projects.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: That was in his personal capacity-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: -----but he still works for the State. It is important that we have a chat with him.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: It would add value to how we approach a great many things. The clerk might correct me if I am wrong, but is the committee entitled to invite people who are officers of the State to assist us with our work?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: I thank all of the witnesses for attending. Is it right that a sum of €178 million was returned to the Exchequer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Is that because people did not meet the provisions of schemes for which they were applying?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: I will ask the Comptroller and Auditor General a question. In real money terms, was there a return to the Exchequer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: It was €43 million.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Okay. Mr. Gleeson is in command of all of the information which I am hearing for the first time. I just want to be clear on it. To come back to the original question, was there an insufficient number of applications for certain schemes or were the criteria not right?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: According to recent media reports, the figure for applications under the beef exceptional aid measure, BEAM, scheme amounted to €78,192,380. This means that there were not enough applications received because the figure provided for was €100 million. Are the criteria for the schemes entirely home-grown? I know that half of the money came from Brussels and half from here. Do...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Are we being too strict in our interpretation of the parameters?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: I did not say that. I did not suggest breaking the rules. Are we being creative enough within appropriate parameters to ensure we will get the money where we need to get it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: No, I am just saying I only look at the figures. Under the scheme €22 million remained unspent. I am sure we will find another hole for it. There is no doubt about that. However, we made €100 million available. One thing is for sure - certain farmers are suffering. If we are making €100 million available and cannot find a way to legally provide the sum for which we...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: What will happen to that €22 million? Will €11 million be sent back to Brussels and will €11 million go into our own-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: We are keeping the €50 million that we are being given by Brussels.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Are we using it for something else?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: We only have to put in €28 million of our own money.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: Brussels fronted up big time there.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: We did not capture the spirit of the scheme in trying to support farmers. It is a badge on somebody that €22 million was left over.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
Chapter 10 - Forestry Grants
(24 Oct 2019)

Marc MacSharry: I do not consider it to be a success.

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