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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Mr. Ó Coigligh as the Secretary General is obviously very familiar with the law. A joint decision. So, it was his decision and the Minister's decision. Is that what he is saying? Is this his testimony here?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Hold on. The Secretary General has just said "joint decision". Is Mr. Ó Coigligh withdrawing that statement or is that his position?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Okay. When the Minister referred to "a decision" was that her decision or your decision?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: In Mr. Ó Coigligh's conversations or discussions with the Minister what was her position on all this?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Did she did she query it? Were any questions posed about it? Was there any back and forth? Was there any hesitation on whether it should be brought to the Government? Was it considered that this was the huge amount of money and the Department had been under so much scrutiny at this point?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: So it was Mr. Ó Coigligh's decision to not bring it to the attention of the Government for the reasons that he has outlined. Could the Minister have brought it to the Government if she had wished to do so?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: I thank the Secretary General. Going back-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: I only have two minutes, so I want to proceed, but we can come back again. Am I correct in saying that a lessons-learned report was brought to the attention of the board in and around 2021?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: That lessons-learned report talked about an appetite of risk that was prevalent within the Arts Council. How did the Arts Council change following that report being presented to the witnesses or the board? Were any actions taken?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: With the limited time I have left, Ms Kennelly mentioned that two pre-legal actions have been initiated. I think Mr. O'Sullivan said that represented 75% of the value of the sum outstanding, which is presumably the impairment of €5 million but he can clarify that. When was each of those items initiated? When were the legal actions initiated and against whom? When were the pre-legal...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: What does that relate to? How much money is being pursued?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: The Arts Council pursued €2.4 million at the beginning of this year, after everything emerged. It is only now that this €2.4 million is being pursued.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: I again thank the witnesses for staying on for the supplementary questions. Going back to the legal actions, if I understood her correctly, Ms Kennelly said the value of one of the arbitrations that is being pursued is €2.4 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: That is the height of one of the claims. Mr. O'Sullivan said earlier that the value of the existing claims relate to 75% of the overall impairment. Am I correct in saying then that the value of the other case must be in and around €1.5 million?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Yes, it is €2.4 million in one. Is it €1.5 million in the other?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: So, of the claims that are currently in arbitration, is the full value of the claim close to €3 million?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: If I understand Mr. O'Sullivan correctly, the balance of that is being pursued against contractor 1 and contractor 2, who were the project managers. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Are these individuals who were presumably working for companies that the Arts Council contracted to be project managers to manage the contracts?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Is there overlap between those organisations? Are any of the project managers being pursued in the arbitration from the same companies?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Are any of the project managers from the same companies that are already under arbitration or are we talking about four different companies?

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