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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: However, while the labelling requirement does not come under the EU-Israel association agreement, which Mr. O'Brien mentioned, it is in place because the occupied territories are officially not part of Israel. Is that not the case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: However, there is a different tariff rate. The key point I am coming to relates to the fact that Mr. O'Brien mentioned the US anti-boycott laws. The Taoiseach, Micheál Martin, has been very clear and I believe the Minister of State, Deputy Thomas Byrne, as recently as today said that this legislation relates to the occupied Palestinian territories and does not relate to Israel. In...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: However, it is not something on which IBEC has sought legal advice. That is fine, of course, but I just want to clarify.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: As I said, my understanding of the laws, and it seems to be an understanding shared by the Taoiseach and the Minister of State, is that they are clear that this is not legislation in respect of a boycott of Israel. This is legislation in respect of ending trade with illegal settlements in illegally occupied territories. I will come back to the question of the certifications Mr. O'Brien...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: The key point in that regard is that if one set of the national imperatives, such as those I put to Mr. O'Brien, is compatible with international law and another one is clearly not, that creates a somewhat different context.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Mr. O'Brien mentioned assessments. Do we also have a legal risk if companies act in a way that is incompatible with international law? The advisory opinion from the Government for a long time now has already been that companies should not be engaging in this trade. I will come back to that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I want to follow up a little more. Mr. O'Brien said that companies would have to do audits. Should companies not already be doing audits? It is a fact that they are required to distinguish trade in both goods and services under the EU-Israel association agreement. The terms of the EU-Israel association agreement cannot be applied to trade in services originating from the occupied...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: This is crucial. We have heard unchallenged at multiple points that there would have to be audits and that companies would have to do something new. My point, which I think is extremely relevant and I would like confirmed, is that companies should already be doing the kind of auditing that Mr. O'Brien has mentioned, including in respect of human rights. A failure to comply with...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: The companies are doing similar audits. Is Mr. O'Brien saying that IBEC's members are not already doing similar audits in other areas where their trade in services should be complying, for example, with EU law or the UN business and human rights principles? Is auditing not a part of what they should be doing generally?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Auditing is not something new. It is ongoing.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I am going to just-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Of course, one cannot implement-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: One cannot implement a law that has not passed yet. The point is that those companies are regularly implementing and having to comply with other kinds of laws in respect of services at both UN and EU levels. This is simply a new law. Of course one does not comply with law that does not exist as yet. We know that with respect to some of the kinds of businesses involved, including in the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Some of these very large companies-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Surely there is clear capacity in terms of compatibility for this. I might go back to the boycott law piece for a minute.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Mr. O'Brien has said he does not have legal advice in respect of that. We know that the federal laws are specifically framed by a boycott of Israel. Is that not the case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Lastly, my very-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Sorry, Chair, I have a final point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: With respect-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jul 2025)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I know. One final point.

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