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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: I thank all the witnesses for being here. I am the last in the line so I apologise if there is some repetition. I will take a step back to the 2021 report. What sparked the report?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: Was there specific concern around referrals to private practice?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: Okay, so they were not issues around-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: When were concerns raised about referrals?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: Yes, I am asking about consultants working in the public system and referrals to private clinics.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: However, it was private work.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: It is out-of-hours work.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: CHI does not classify that as private work.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: Is it not a handy incentive not to reduce the public list, that people will receive out-of-hours work?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: The efficiency of that work could be questioned. How many investigations are under way or have been undertaken into this specific issue at this stage? The HSE is looking at it, as is CHI.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: Can I get a quantum? What is the value of the insourcing that was done? Going back to the 2021 report, which I understand was not specifically about this issue, what kind of value are we talking about?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: What number of staff are involved? We are not only talking about consultants. We are talking about a range of different staff. What kind of numbers are we talking about involved in the out-of-hours work?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: I understand. I am trying to get a sense of-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: In total, are we talking about dozens of individuals?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: We are not talking about the same cohort.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: We could therefore be talking about hundreds of different personnel over the years.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: However, it is not outrageous to suggest that it could involve hundreds.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: On the individual who was deemed not suitable to be on-call, but was deemed suitable to do the out-of-hours work, how long did that last? They were deemed not to be suitable for one form of work, but suitable for another form.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

Séamus McGrath: I understand. How long did it go on for?

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