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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Before we proceed with the rest of the meeting, members are reminded of the long-standing practice and ruling of the Cathaoirleach to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. Members are also reminded of the provisions within Standing Order 226 that the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: I thank Mr. McCarthy. Do members have any comments to make?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Do any other members wish to comment on that?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: We will examine that first. Maybe at next week's meeting we will return to it to decide on a course of action. Do any other members wish to speak on any of the other financial statements?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Do any other members wish to speak? No. The Comptroller and Auditor General identified a number of areas where reports were furnished late. In the first instance, I propose that we write to those bodies whose statements the Comptroller and Auditor General identified to seek an explanation for their delay in publishing. Is that agreed? Agreed. Are members happy to move on? Okay. We...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Today we will engage with Children's Health Ireland, CHI, and the National Treatment Purchase Fund, NTPF, to discuss CHI's financial statements for 2023 and the financial statements of the NTPF. I welcome Ms Lucy Nugent, chief executive officer; Mr. John Fitzpatrick, interim chief financial officer; Ms Eilish Hardiman, strategic programme director; Ms Julia Lewis, transformation director;...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: We will now move to the opening statements of the other witnesses. As set out in the letter of invitation, they have five minutes to make their opening statements. I now invite Ms Nugent, chief executive, to make her opening statement on behalf of CHI.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: I thank Ms Nugent. I now ask Mr. Don Gallagher, chairman, to make his opening statement on behalf of the National Treatment Purchase Fund.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: I thank Mr. Gallagher. We now move to our speakers. We will suspend at approximately 12 noon for a short break and resume shortly thereafter. I now open the floor to members. The lead speaker today is Deputy Grace Boland. She has 15 minutes for questions and answers. All other members will have ten minutes. If time permits, I will allow members to come back in for a second round.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: I know you could talk all day about it, and I appreciate that, but unfortunately the clock is against us.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Our next speaker is Deputy Dolan.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Deputy Ardagh asked, when that piece of work is completed, that-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: It will be public knowledge and we will get a copy of it at that point.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: I thank Ms Brady. Our next speaker is Deputy McAuliffe.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Thanks, Deputy McGrath. I have a number of questions myself. In your opening statement, Mr. Gallagher, you say that the National Treatment Purchase Fund, NTPF, first learned of the internal CHI report outlining the misuse of NTPF money at CHI. Do you stand over that comment? Is that an established fact, in your view, that there was a misuse of the funds?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Just on that particular word, "misuse", you said that word in your opening statement, Mr. Gallagher. You did not say "alleged misuse". You said "outlining the misuse" of NTPF money. Is it misuse?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: The last time you were here, Ms Nugent, you were not aware of this unpublished internal review. You stated that the first you heard of it was also in the media over the course of the weekend.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Would it be safe to say you were blindsided by this?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Absolutely.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

John Brady: Are there any?

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