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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: ...brief. Last week I was really concerned. Based on the knowledge I had up to Thursday, I was really concerned that if we had an inquiry into this matter, it would suggest a lack of confidence in GSOC. GSOC had investigated, reached conclusions, terminated the investigation and had found no definitive evidence of surveillance or of Garda misconduct. Since then I have received all the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: ...in the air. The first question the Deputy raised was: why did I so quickly say there was no Garda involvement for the alleged bugging? I did not, quickly, do anything. What I did was recite what GSOC told me, what Mr. Kieran FitzGerald said on "Prime Time". The answer was, "There is no evidence of Garda misconduct". If there was evidence of Garda misconduct I would say so. Kieran...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Mick Wallace: ...time. Can the Minister confirm whether he shares the Garda Commissioner's absolute confidence that no rogue elements of the 13,000-strong Garda force may have been involved in the surveillance of GSOC members or offices? Can the Minister specify whether he has formally requested inquiries to be made by the Garda Commissioner in this regard, whether he has received formal confirmation...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The Deputy is absolutely right that if there is a threat or a suspicion that GSOC was under surveillance that it is appropriate that the matter be investigated, but what he is missing is that GSOC itself investigated it. It decided there was no definitive evidence of surveillance and it referenced what occurred as "anomalies". One of the anomalies - I am happy to address the other two but I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: It was said I have been a disgrace, but the reality is that all I am doing is reporting what GSOC stated. GSOC stated that there is no evidence of Garda misconduct. It has been said that there is no evidence that the Garda had GSOC under surveillance. All I can do is repeat this. Did somebody else have GSOC under surveillance? We are back to the main issue. Anomalies were identified....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I was summarising for the Dáil the three threats, GSOC’s conclusions on them as I was advised of them, and the ultimate outcome of GSOC’s investigation. I thought that was the correct and appropriate way to proceed. It was certainly not my intention to mislead anyone. Why would I do so? GSOC was coming to this committee the following day at which any issues of relevance...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I can tell the Deputy that I am one of the most enthusiastic supporters of the work that is required of an organisation like GSOC. Way before he was in this House it was the type of body that I wanted to see in place. That is one of the reasons why, for example, we had to set up the Morris tribunal. It was because there was no body that existed that could independently investigate...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Aengus Ó Snodaigh: To clarify, the two questions are linked. Both the Garda Commissioner and the chairman of GSOC, Simon O'Brien, have said the same thing, although Mr. O'Brien tried to backtrack from his statement when he was at the committee last week. The reason the investigation was initiated is that the Commissioner had access to a draft report GSOC was preparing and a paragraph in that report was...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Mick Wallace: Okay. The Minister is allowed to give GSOC the power to look at policies, practices and procedures and, on his watch, why has he not given GSOC that power? That is within his gift. On the issue of the Roma children, it was within his gift to allow GSOC a role in investigating that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: It is rather complex and a short answer could be misleading. I have no wish to comment on whether GSOC should have commenced the section 102 investigation at the point when it did. I have merely described the information on which the commission commenced it. That issue can be considered in the context of any matters of relevance to this by the judge who is going to conduct the inquiry. ...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: ...reference for the review are being finalised as we sit here. It is important all colleagues in Cabinet agree to them. The judge will be able to ask people questions. It is my understanding that GSOC, Verrimus and Rits will co-operate. All documentation and information available to me will be furnished to the judge. If there is anything additional the review requires from GSOC it will...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The Deputy has asked me a question to which I am responding. GSOC has produced the Kieran Boylan report and its annual reports and it has - as it is entirely appropriate and as it is entitled to do, when necessary, as was referenced last week - voiced public criticism of matters of concern. It is not toothless, it has been independent, assertive and has raised issues. The chairman of GSOC,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: ...that it is not correct to say this is technology that can be acquired only by governments. Second, an issue that arises is that this was presented as if it were some device on the street outside GSOCs’ offices or lurking close to them. I have been told this is a piece of equipment, if it exists, that could be operated within a 2 km to 3 km radius of GSOC’s offices, which...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

John Halligan: It is just one question, but I want to clear an inaccuracy. I am not here to defend or attack GSOC, the Garda or the Minister, who is well capable of defending himself. GSOC stated, only last year, that it finds the failure by the Garda to release information unacceptable. It also stated that its inquiries are regularly frustrated by the refusal by officers to hand over documents. On one...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: ...function. He set out a series of questions in respect of what were obviously matters of concern to him. Subsequently, a meeting took place between the Garda Commissioner and the chairman of GSOC. I am not - any more than the members of the committee - privy to the conversation that took place between them. It seems that is where matters rest. Quite clearly the Garda Commissioner had...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Aengus Ó Snodaigh: In the Minister's first statement to the Dáil on the matter of the surveillance of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission by people, as yet unidentified, he failed to outline the fact that GSOC had launched a public interest investigation. The Minister also failed to disclose to the Dáil the reasoning behind the launching of that investigation. At the same time, the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Mick Wallace: The Minister mentioned the new protocols and he made a bit of deal last night about the fact that he was giving PULSE access to GSOC as well but he gave it that access only in the past few weeks when under political pressure. Given that GSOC has remained toothless under his watch and given that it has been undermined on a number of occasions, does the Minister think it is surprising that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The chair of the commission expressed concerns about the fact that a leak had occurred and has a genuine and understandable concern that this is a very serious issue for GSOC. GSOC is conducting an internal investigation into this. It is my understanding that it has also sought legal advice. I know no more about that aspect of matters than members of the committee in the context of where...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The Deputy made what I think was supposed to be a critical reference to everybody "cosying up". The Garda Síochána performs a function, the Garda Commissioner performs a function, and GSOC performs its function. My role in all of this is to ensure the independence and integrity of both bodies, to address legislative issues that need to be addressed, to ensure that if one or other...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: An investigation has already been conducted by GSOC and it has reached conclusions on that investigation. That is something that people have lost sight of throughout all of this. We have had confidence in GSOC when it reports Garda misconduct, and when it reports that there is no Garda misconduct and that there is no definitive evidence of surveillance, I must stand over the conclusions...

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