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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Sitting suspended at 4.38 p.m. and resumed at 4.40 p.m.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Mr. Brian Lucas: As the Minister of State said in his opening statement, the three Departments have been looking at a suite of measures for the situation in the industry. I know it was said the previous day and my understanding is the paper and the suite of measures have not yet been signed off by party leaders. Obviously then, I am limited in the kind of detail I can go into, but the type...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Martin Browne: As Senator Daly pointed out, many of the questions have been asked already. To see a shipment of just under 4,000 tonnes of peat come into the country at the weekend was crazy. As Deputy Carthy said, it is not just about 200 trucks in Ireland because another 200 trucks had to load that product over in Latvia and it also travelled 3,000 miles by sea. All sectors of Irish horticulture will...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Jackie Cahill: The first session of today's meeting is on the impact of peat shortages on the horticultural industry. I welcome the Minister of State with responsibility for heritage and electoral reform at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Noonan. He is joining us from a witness room in Kildare House. He is joined from the Department by Mr. Brian Lucas, who is joining...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Joe Flaherty: I thank the Minister for coming in. I am aware our peatlands are an important ecosystem. I was lucky enough to grow up in the bog and I am lucky enough to still live on the edge of the bog. I value and appreciate what the bog did for us as a young family when we were growing up. I am appreciative of the people who worked on the bogs of Ireland over the years. We were warned time and again...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Brian Leddin: I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan. I will use my time to counter this hyperbolic narrative I am hearing from my colleagues on the committee which suggests that this is somehow related to the green agenda. I am glad that the Minister of State has said very clearly that this is not the green agenda but law, legislation and planning. This is what we are dealing with. A message...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Malcolm Noonan: I will take those three members' questions together if that is okay, Chairman. I will make an initial comment to address Deputy Flaherty, Senator Boyhan and Deputy Kehoe about this being the green agenda. It is not the green agenda; it is the law. That is the reality of this. My Department, which has responsibility for heritage, has no role in this except in the sense that the peatlands...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I thank the Minister of State and Mr. Lucas for coming in. I am fully aware that at the time no Department would take it up and they and their Department were essentially lumped with it. There is a serious concern here for a simple reason. We had a person in from the Department with responsibility for climate and they were the most arrogant person ever to come before a committee. They...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Matt Carthy: There are thousands of jobs at risk. In his opening remarks the Minister of State indicated he recognised the importance of these jobs to the rural economy and rural communities. He also said he was disappointed at the importation witnessed today. Does the Minister of State accept that, at present, there is no alternative to the extraction of peat for many sectors of the horticultural...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Danny Healy-Rae: I thank the Minister of State and his Department official, Mr. Lucas, for attending this important meeting. There is no doubt about it, and I am not being personal towards either the Minister of State or Deputy Leddin - they are fine people and I have nothing personal against them at all - but it is clear to me they are pulling the strings in government. They ensured Bord na Móna was...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Malcolm Noonan: I will try to address the questions in sequence, with the help of Mr. Lucas. To address Deputy Fitzmaurice's question on that commitment of the Government, as I have said, I am giving a wholehearted commitment. The Taoiseach and all of the Government are concerned about that. My Department has limited responsibility with regard to heritage and no responsibility with regard to the planning...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Michael Collins: Some of the questions I am asking have already been asked. Deputy Leddin said this is not a matter of the green agenda, but it is certainly an extraordinary situation we find ourselves in with regard to both forestry and peat and the Green Party is at the helm. We see the disaster that is unfolding. Some Minister somewhere along the line is unable to resolve this unfolding disaster for...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Mr. Brian Lucas: This came up the last day I was before the committee with officials from two other Departments. An assistant secretary from the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications indicated then that, as the Minister of State has said, a new consent regime would require primary legislation and would take time to prepare and present to the Oireachtas. There would also...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Mr. Brian Lucas: We have a legislative framework in place in accordance with EU law. The Minister of State outlined this in his opening statement and I have outlined it in previous meetings with the committee. This legislation has been in place since 2011 under the Planning and Development Act 2000, so it is not new legislation. With regard to the legislative bind we are in, we have to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Malcolm Noonan: I will try to address the last four questions, and I apologise that I have to depart shortly on Dáil business. I might ask Mr. Lucas to come in specifically on the options. With regard to the continued assertion that this is the green agenda, who would accept we would attempt or try to move to undermine an industry? Our collective job as legislators is responsibility towards those...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Paul Daly: I welcome the Minister of State and Mr. Lucas. As Deputy Collins said, coming into the fray so late in the game, a lot of what I had intended to ask has already been asked. That is not to say I would be over the moon about the answers that were given to some of the questions. I have lost count of how many meetings we have had on this issue. The submissions we received from guests on each...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Victor Boyhan: I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. I, too, want to reference today's edition of The Irish Times. There were two articles relating to these matters. My phone was hopping at 9 o'clock in response to those articles. The timescale to find a practical and ecological alternative to peat must be reasonable and realistic. I am not sure the times the Minister of State has set out...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (21 Sep 2021)

Malcolm Noonan: Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil leis an gcoiste. I thank the committee for its time this afternoon. Peatlands have been one of the most abiding features of the Irish landscape since the last ice age. They cover a large area of the land surface, occurring as raised bogs, blanket bogs and fens. Peatlands have a key biodiversity value and provide a range of ecosystem services....