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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Everything about the Apple situation, including the changes made in the budget by the former Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, in 2014, stinks to high heaven. Frankly, it stretches credibility that this happened at a time when new political forces had come into this Dáil. In 2012 and 2013, Deputy Pearse Doherty and I raised at the then Joint Committee on Finance, Public...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister has said the companies at the centre of this have a long-standing relationship with the State. I accept that the Apple company in Cork that employs more than 4,000 people has been here for a long time. Hopefully, it will stay for an equally long time. We are not talking about the company for which the employees work; we are talking about the other companies. Two of them...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: ...the Paradise Papers that during that period when the Government was ending the stateless rule - when we questioned the Minister on this we were told that to his knowledge only three companies were stateless - that of the three Apple subsidiaries based in Cork that has no tax residency here or anywhere in the world, two ended up in Jersey and one became an Irish resident company. One of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Where illegal state aid is paid to a company - the Apple case is in the public domain - there is a requirement for the State to recoup that state aid. Does that not apply to this case?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: I am only messing. I am merely highlighting the difference between the approach to the Apple matter and the €13 billion it owes and these couple of hundred individuals. Rulings on state aid come from the European courts quite regularly. How many individuals have benefitted from potentially illegal state aid? Are we saying it was illegal state aid at this point in time?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Richard Boyd Barrett: ...is very suspicious, yet again. We have already been told we should have collected €13 billion of tax that we did not collect. The Government has still not taken that money and the interest off Apple and put it in an escrow account. As soon as there was movement on that particular tax avoidance strategy, lo and behold, we made changes which ensure Apple does not pay a single cent...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: ...property that was onshore up until now does not stand up to rigorous testing. I understand that the Minister wants to give certainty and so forth but it is a certainty to companies like Apple that they will continue to be able to write down their tax liability for several more years. We are only just starting to see the tip of the iceberg that is the Paradise Papers and I have no doubt...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Richard Boyd Barrett: ...that they are robbing this country of tax revenues that we should be getting. They are also robbing people all around the world. All of the tax and global justice groups say this kind of behaviour that Apple, Facebook and Google are engaging in is the major contributory factor to growing global inequality, poverty and deprivation. These people are robbing us blind in a deliberate, naked...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: ...that time that this would be a way of treating intellectual property that was consistent with how it was being treated elsewhere. On the question of contact between the Department of Finance and Apple, it is obvious that this was a number of years ago and predates my arrival in the Department. I will consult my departmental officials on the matter to see how contact can be established....

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Richard Boyd Barrett: ...already discussed at some length about the changes made to the capital allowances allowed on intangible assets in 2014 and the enormous tax benefits they conferred on a small number of companies, notably Apple among others. We have made the point. To paraphrase the Minister, he said the Government does not gear its tax policy around any particular company. That is probably true because...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Richard Boyd Barrett: ...play out. I suspect that is because the then Minister, Deputy Noonan, said it was guaranteed and that the Government would not do anything. It is a little like what I suspect also happened with Apple – we will move on to that discussion later. In those critical years of 2013 and 2014, a great deal of running around was done by the then Minister. He was talking to big...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Richard Boyd Barrett: ...to the bigger picture of the whole array of allowances, deductions and reliefs available to corporations. It is worth saying the same groups we have just talked about are the major beneficiaries of this: the Apples, Googles and Facebooks and probably the pharmaceutical companies and so on. A relatively small number of companies benefit from this vast array of allowances, deductions and...