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Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: Mr. O'Brien acknowledged in the report that there are three different versions of the accounts.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: Dr. Smith mentioned earlier the other audits and 54 agencies in that six and half year period. Does Mr. O'Brien acknowledge that similar scenarios could exist given he has already mentioned three Garda investigations across the board in that respect also?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: The National Office for Suicide Prevention said that it had grave concerns in terms of the helpline, requests for information, delivery on commitments, failure to attend significant meetings and again it is about the helplline. Will Mr. O'Brien explore that in order that I can better understand it?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: There were never any issues in respect of the value for money for the helpline service that was being provided?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: Ms O'Connor never had any concerns in that respect.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: To be clear, is Mr. O'Brien saying he does not believe there has not been any misappropriation of public funds-----

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: -----or is he saying he is not prepared to comment?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: I thank Deputy Shane Cassells.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: If one reads section 2.4 of the grant aid agreement with Console, it provides that the organisation must use the grant only for the purpose set out in the service specification schedule. Does Mr. O'Brien feel angry at what he had read in the internal audit? Does what he read in it make his blood boil, given the language used in the grant aid agreement with Console?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: I suggest we need to go full circle and return to the core issues raised by Deputy Róisín Shortall and the Comptroller and Auditor General about the audits of these bodies. If the HSE's belief is that the services were provided and that there is no need to delve any further, how can we get to the actual meat of the issue, which is whether public funds were misappropriated?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: I have one last quick question. In respect of the helpline and its continued existence, Mr. O'Brien said that it costs more than the funds that were being provided for its running. The service has now been transferred to Pieta House. Has there been a full appraisal of the real cost of providing this service, with real checks and balances, against what was indicated to the HSE, and will it...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: I acknowledge that, but I feel it is being used as a defence. Mr. O'Brien can say the service cost X and that the HSE provided Y, but that does not address the core of my question. In the light of the level of detail into which the internal audit has gone - I am not going to refer to specific individual expenditure items - does Mr. O'Brien not have any sense whatsoever that there is a...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: There is an aspect that I am trying to get my head around and it comes back to the statement by Mr. O'Brien at the outset, namely, that the HSE got value for money for the service that it purchased. I cannot square that opening gambit. Does Mr. O'Brien believe that there were no funds from the HSE that were used in an inappropriate manner? That goes to core of this. We could read all the...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: I thank Mr. O'Brien and his team for attending. I want to say at the outset that my thoughts today are with the staff of Console and, more important, with the 6,000 people who use the service each year. Some two dozen calls will come through to those lines today, responsibility for which has now been taken over by Pieta House. I wish everyone associated with those services the very best. ...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Shane Cassells: I asked that question because, as public representatives, we work week in, week out with groups that would be accessing funding from the HSE, groups that are hanging on by their fingernails to survive and to provide a service. I have a letter from the Committee of Public Accounts, PAC, from 26 January of this year to Mr. O'Brien in respect of a community development association, which is in...

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