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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: We have received apologies from Senator Gavan and Deputy Kerrane. All of those present in the committee room are asked to exercise personal responsibility to protect themselves and others from the risks of contracting Covid-19. Members participating in the meeting remotely are required to do so from within the Leinster House complex only. I ask members and witnesses to please turn off...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: I thank Mr. Duggan for the submission, which was very useful in going through the issues chronologically as they arose. That was very helpful for the committee and it was worth taking the additional time to go through it. Deputy Ó Cathasaigh is first.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: Do not worry, that will not happen.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: There are one or two questions there.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: Deputy Ó Cuív has a couple of questions and gave an example relating to this last week. While the calculation might have been slightly off, the principle is important. He might put it again and Mr. Duggan or one of his colleagues might address it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: We might pause for a moment because this is a key point for the committee that we want to tease out. I will allow Mr. Duggan to respond and then invite the Deputy to come back in on it. We all want clarity on this. I acknowledge it is difficult to talk about numbers in the abstract.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: I want to hear Mr. Duggan out, and we will let the Deputy in then.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: Deputy Ó Cuív, we are talking about two different matters. I think Mr. Duggan is correct in the maths he is doing. He gave an example of two individuals on the 40% tax rate. The example the Deputy gave relates to someone on two different tax rates.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: We will come back to Mr. Duggan then.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: I ask Mr. Duggan to let Deputy Ó Cuív finish and I will bring him back in then. The Deputy may finish his question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: Mr. Duggan may comment.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: No, Mr. Duggan without interruption.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: In fairness, I held the line when allowing Deputy Ó Cuív to make his point. I want to hear Mr. Duggan without interruption.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: No, Mr. Duggan without interruption.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: Mr. Duffy might provide us with those figures because I cannot get my head around that. I am not asking for them now, but he might furnish us with those figures.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: No, I want to get to Mr. Duggan and I will let the Deputy back in then.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: I refer to the example that Mr. Duggan has worked out there and to the balancing. Could he furnish both of those examples in writing to the committee? I know the point he is making in relation to-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: I know that, but if we could get those in writing after the meeting so that the committee could look through them, I would appreciate that. Deputy Ó Cuív wanted to come back in.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

Denis Naughten: In fairness, I think this is an issue more-----

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