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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: I thank Dr. Boylan. There are existing strong links with St. Vincent's, so it cannot be regarded as totally objective. An earlier speaker asked why the nuns will not sell the site, which is the key question. They promised they would gift the site. It makes sense that they would do so. The Government says it wants to own it fully. Why will the nuns not follow through on that promise?...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Would Mr. McGarr hazard a guess about the increased value of St. Vincent's Holdings?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Those of us who have been involved in this issue for many years will recall when St. Vincent's mortgaged the public hospital in order to build the private hospital, without any approval. There was a row about that and there is a real danger of that happening again. I return to the definition of "clinically appropriate". The Minister said today that he has no difficulty in setting out...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: I put it to the Minister today that this could be done in a matter of minutes. I would like Mr. McGarr's opinion on that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: I think I recall Professor Higgins being on a radio programme with Mr. McGarr recently in which Mr. McGarr suggested there should be a clear definition in the documents. I believe Professor Higgins endorsed that view.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: It strikes me that the idea of the Government proceeding to sign off on this on Tuesday is premature for many reasons. We have appealed to the Minister to hold off on that. I am aware that the business case process has not been complied with by the Department of Health. We were told yesterday that it is working on it. There is no agreement that there is a robust business case for this and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: No date has been set for that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: From that point of view, along with us urging the Minister to hold off to provide more time for scrutiny, other steps need to be taken too. It strikes me that there is no rush to deal with this next week or even in the next two weeks.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: I thank Dr. Boylan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: It is in clause 6.4, which I quoted earlier.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: They are free to mortgage it after 20 years, and in the first 20 years with written consent. That is the Government timescale.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Can I correct the record? I misspoke in referring to Professor Shane Higgins when I said he would like to see a list of the services included in the documents. It was Professor Declan Keane who was on that programme so I want to clarify that. He was clear when he said he would welcome the services being listed in the documents. I apologise for that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: -----a "Yes" or "No" in answer to that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Fine. It is a result of Government failure to bring the project across the line. I do not want to get back into this issue of ownership and leasing. I think most people would see those as being very different things. However, I will ask about a claim the Minister has made repeatedly in relation to the State owning the hospital and whether it stands up to any kind of scrutiny. I put it to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Just on the building then, what I just read out and what is in the first schedule is very different from what the Minister is claiming.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: I am not talking about the site.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: I am talking about the building.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: That is not my understanding, or the understanding of many others who are much more qualified than I am, of that first schedule. Will Mr. O'Donoghue facilitate the committee by sending us a legal note on that particular schedule?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: On this specific question, I am asking the Minister because the explanation given for that particular phrase being used was that it is to clarify that it is only maternity-related services, not services such as cardiology, and yet the fact sheet talks about services such as dermatology, which is referenced, and potentially others. That explanation does not then stand up to scrutiny.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: With all due respect, I am asking the Minister about this because the Minister has been giving that explanation for that phrase. Is the Minister saying now there will be dermatology services in the new national maternity hospital?

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