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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: No. 8 is a discussion on the progress of the cost of insurance working group. I welcome the Minister, Deputy D'Arcy, and his officials to the meeting.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: Deputy Pearse Doherty has the floor. When he finishes, the Minister of State can come back.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: Senator Kieran O'Donnell.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: Senator Kieran O'Donnell

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: Senator Kieran O'Donnell.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: Senator Kieran O'Donnell.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: Does Senator O'Donnell wish to make a contribution or not?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: I have called him four or five times now.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: The Senator's time is up.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: I would like to clarify a few points which the Minister of State has made. First, with regard to the market itself, have any new insurance companies come into the market?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: We have lost four.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: There is no interest in the market at present.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: To go back to the committee's report, at that time we were talking about the fee to access information, which was €10,000. Insurance Ireland confirmed that the full membership fee was €100,000 across all members. Has the Minister of State investigated that with the insurance companies? Have they relented on their approach to collecting these fees?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: I am not going to get into an argument with the Minister of State about the 23%. It is an average figure for increases. As the Minister of State said earlier on, he is dealing with facts. That may be a fact, but it is also a fact that insurance for taxi drivers, truck drivers, and those who drive vans for their businesses has not decreased. That is a fact relative to a real trading business.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: Relative to those who are trading in business.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: Yes. Their insurance costs have not decreased. If anything, they have found it more and more difficult to deal with insurance companies.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: We should make that distinction. What can taxi drivers, truck drivers, and van drivers expect?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: My background is transport. A great number of people contact me regularly about massive increases in their premiums. These people have no record of claims yet their insurance premium increases. It does not just go up by a small amount of money. We can talk in percentage terms but that clouds the issue of the actual cost in euro. It could be double.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: I am just clarifying a few points before I get to policy aspects.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Cost of Insurance Working Group Update: Discussion (15 Nov 2018)

John McGuinness: I will just make a point about public liability because I met two different groups within one sector on that issue: Dublin publicans and rural publicans. It is almost impossible to do business because of the costs of public liability insurance, especially for small pubs. Whether one had a claim or not, one's insurance and costs are going up within a business that has an extremely tight...

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