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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Sustainable Development Goals: Discussion (28 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: It does make it a little difficult. It is a very valuable analysis, but the goalposts have moved a little. We need to be fully clear when we are looking at the report by Social Justice Ireland which, as I said, is a really useful report. Yet, we are not necessarily looking at the actual sub-targets that were in the SDGs; we are looking at a set of targets that have been modified to take...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Sustainable Development Goals: Discussion (28 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: The CSO has done a fantastic job of filling in a lot of gaps. It is my hope, now that they have that initial framework in place, that they would be able to look at that disaggregated data piece and people through that a little more. I will come back to Ms Carmody. As she knows, this topic is another hobby-horse of mine. I see that she has included in her opening statement the idea of a...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I know Mr. O'Loughlin finds himself in a difficult situation on this. I wish to ask about the voluntary leave aspect, because this is, of course, analogous to some of the drip feed we heard concerning the matter we will be dealing with later this afternoon. Did Mr. O'Brien ask to take leave or was he asked to take leave? It is a period of voluntary leave he has taken.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Did he ask to take leave or was he asked to take leave?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I thank Mr. O'Loughlin. I understand that answer. Turning to the witnesses from the Department, it does sound to me like Mr. O'Loughlin, as soon as this issue was uncovered, acted very speedily and informed all the relevant people. Will the Department have input, in respect of the terms of reference, into this independent review? Is the Department content that an independent review,...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Okay. I am not long on this committee but we do see similar themes emerging from the different sessions. Moving to the Comptroller and Auditor General, I have a quick question regarding this contract of employment issue. I just wish to clarify this point. Is it the case that Mr. McCarthy was not furnished with the document or that it was confirmed to him that such a document does not,...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: This was as CFO.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I will put the same question to Mr. O'Loughlin. Which is the case in this instance? Has the Comptroller and Auditor General asked for a document and not been furnished with it or is it the case that such a document, this contract of employment, does not, in fact, exist?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Okay, but then you have also told this committee, in respect of the request from the Department to provide the full details of salary, etc., that this information could not be furnished because of a contractual obligation not to disclose. This request has, essentially, been stonewalled. How can Mr. O'Loughlin stand over that statement when he cannot provide the document?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Can I ask if the Comptroller and Auditor General would agree with that assessment?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Am I correct that discussions are ongoing with the Department about ceasing this ministerial derogation from the code of practice of governance of State bodies to which Mr. O’Loughlin’s opening statement said the organisation said it was committed. Is IHRB still negotiating whether this disclosure will happen into the future?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Okay. I just find it difficult to reconcile the stonewalling of a request from the Department when so much of the funding is derived from the Department and Mr. O’Loughlin’s opening statement that the IRHB “abides by the underlying principles of good governance - accountability, transparency [and] probity”. We are not seeing that transparency at all. I will...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: It is detailed as “other income”.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: What further detail is provided?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: IHRB regulates activities such as betting. Well, it regulates activities such as handicapping -----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: ----- which can have an impact on races. Would that be immediately and transparently apparent? Deputy O’Connor would have far more experience of racing than I would. I know very little about it. If I was going to place a bet on a race, would it be immediately evident to me as a rank-and-file punter going in to place a few bob on a race, would it be immediately evident to me the...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Is it appropriate in that context to accept a payment of that nature and that size when the IHRB’s regulatory function can have an impact on the outcome of races?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Okay. The contribution was folded in, recorded as "other income" with no other information, and then paid out as part of this exit package. Did that contribution then also cover other liabilities that would go with that, such as tax and social protection payment, employers' PRSI, which are the other costs that come attendant with making a payment to an employee?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: So we do not -----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (29 Jun 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Finally, in the very few seconds remaining, yes, Mr. O’Loughlin is new in the role. However, I have to assume that decisions made, particularly regarding the request coming in from the Minister for full disclosure of details of a person’s salary, were discussed at a board level. I have to assume, then, that was subsequently minuted. Has Mr. O’Loughlin reviewed the...

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