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National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I was trying to parablise to make a point, but we can talk about metaphorical and spiritual issues outside the Chamber. If a person from overseas - who is not and does not want to be an Irish citizen and is not going to be offered €1million to become an Irish citizen - wants to try to make a killing and NAMA is happy for him or her to do so, I do not see why there should be any...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: An "focal ar bith" a dúirt an Teachta?

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I welcome the opportunity to comment on amendment No. 16, which encapsulates the entire debate on this matter. As indicated previously, I have an issue with regard to the question of market value. Deputy Burton believes that it might be better to temporarily nationalise the banks. That is a fair argument but I disagree with it because the cost to the State would be much higher and...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I am probably listening too much to David McWilliams.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: In Russia in the 1990s, there were queues for food and public sector workers were not paid. That is the kind of appalling vista we must contemplate in respect of our own country. In that context and in light of the cost of recapitalising the banks for the full amount, the risks posed by nationalisation are not worth contemplating. I have a great deal of respect for David McWilliams, who has...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I was referring to people's practice of sticking a pin in a list of horses to decide which one to back. If one is trying to obtain a long-term economic value from this, in some ways what one is doing is similar to what will happen with NAMA.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: A potential for risk accompanies any asset management agency. However, at least such an agency can attempt to make some money back. It is one thing spinning the roulette wheel and hoping that the ball lands in the black and not in the red. It is another thing to overturn the roulette table completely, which is what Mr. McWilliams advocates and which is what is contemplated under the Labour...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: Not really.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I am referring to the cost of recapitalising the banks. At present, the European Central Bank, ECB, rate is 1.5%. If we were to recapitalise the banks through external borrowings rather than through the ECB, it might not be possible to obtain the relevant moneys in the first instance. If one were successful in obtaining such moneys, one would be obliged to pay a higher interest rate. That...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: That is a good point. I am all for that and will take the Deputy's point on board. Deputy Higgins spoke about abstraction, which is what we dealing in if we get into the minutiae. Section 82(5) provides a concrete counter-balance to the abstract in terms of whether economic value will increase. It states: Where NAMA determines that the long-term economic value of the property comprised in...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: Let us not be petty.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I know that.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: We would still have the loans.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: Hear, hear.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: It is an educated guess.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: It would cost him more to do that.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: From the Seanad (12 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: We have heard many a conspiracy theory over the lifetime of NAMA, that it is a bail-out for banks and a bail-out for developers. Deputy Burton seems to believe that this small little technical amendment is a conspiracy in itself whereas I regard it as crystal clear. NAMA does not operate in other jurisdictions, which is stating the obvious. There is no other way around it and there is no...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: From the Seanad (12 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: It is in line with Green Party thinking and I support any welcome amendments——

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: From the Seanad (12 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: ——and would like to discuss them——

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: From the Seanad (12 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: ——rather than talking about conspiracy theories. It might be helpful if the Minister could reiterate for the benefit of Members of this House and also for members of the media, the exact percentage of the overseas assets that may be held currently in jurisdictions with whom we have no agreements and no reach. Assets held in Britain, the United States and other EU states are eminently...

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