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Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: "Cohabiting" is the word that is used.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: I am taken aback that for once Senators are showing a complete lack of perspective. The arguments made today would be valid if we had abolished child benefit, but we are talking about a cut of €4 a week. There are people for whom that cut might be significant, but the recommendation in the McCarthy report was that we cut it by €30 per week for the first child and €67 per week for...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: The recommendation of the Commission on Taxation was that it should it be taxed which Senators have recommended today. If we were to do this, a middle income earner would see an effective reduction in child benefit of €66. If two people are earning, they are paying tax at 41%; therefore, child benefit would be taxed at that rate, meaning it would be reduced to €100. That would be far...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: People on low incomes need child benefit to support their children; that is why we have protected them. In an effort to avoid creating a poverty trap, we ensured an increase was also given to people in receipt of family income supplement, protecting those on low incomes who are working. The cut was kept to a minimum. Parents of any nine year old to an 18 or 22 year old, depending on their...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: We were not born Ministers; we were born real people with real families.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: We have real siblings, parents and children. We have been elected to Dáil Éireann by our constituents who hold us accountable.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: We meet them every day; therefore, we know their needs and demands. We are accountable to them. It was disingenuous, therefore, of Senator Doherty to question our bona fides in the work we do. As Ministers, we are very well paid. Senators and Deputies are also very well paid. That is why, as Ministers, we took a formal, legal and permanent cut of 15%. We are still well paid - I am not...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: It recommended cuts to the lone parent payment, the farm assist scheme, for the unemployed, the young and widows.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: Let us be genuine about the arguments we are making. Senator Buttimer accepted this when he quoted some elements of the Fine Gael policy We would all prefer to be in a position where we could do what the Government has done successively in recent years, to increase child benefit by 300%. We should keep the matter in perspective; we still support families and parents. I am sorry we have to...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: The idea behind the reclaiming of PRSI contributions for four years is to bring it in line with the tax system. Senator Norris asked if it applied elsewhere; it applies in the tax system. It does not cut both ways.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: This is the same as in the tax system. If one owes money to Revenue, it can take it from one no matter how long one owes it. However, if it owes one money, one only has four years within which to get it back. It will be the same with PRSI and it brings it into line with the tax system. As regards how much money is involved, in 2008, refunds were paid to 14,500 people costing €21.3...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: Since 1994 people have been able to get refunds without any time limit, so it is not as if people have not had an opportunity to do so up to now. It is now appropriate to bring the process in line with the tax system for the reasons I have outlined. It does not affect some of the people Senators were talking about, such as people who underpaid or were trying to build up their entitlements....

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: The amnesty has been there since 1994.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: People could have claimed money back in that time. The reality is people do not know they have overpaid unless an accountant examines the matter or a claim has been made for a new scheme etc. I do not know if there are other examples in the financial sector but even if there were, it would not affect what the State is doing. We can only work from a departmental perspective. Awareness and...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: With 53 schemes in the Department I will not even pretend to know all the intricacies of each of them. I will be happy to speak to somebody about the individual cases raised here. All the section does is align a situation. At present, a self-employed person can make a claim and years later pay up the contributions, but the pension is paid from the date of the claim. What this states is...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: It is generally the other way around. Approximately 20% of State pension cases are where claims are made retrospectively. In the case raised by Senator McFadden, it would be governed by the four year rule.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: No, it does not. All it involves is that people have paid the contributions for the pension for which they are eligible. Whether it is a part pension or a full pension it is a matter of ensuring all the contributions are paid at the time the State pays them.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: This is one of those sections where 1 January has no good, bad or indifferent impact. There is no impact on when a person makes a claim, but when he or she makes the claim for the pension as a person who has previously been self-employed, then he or she pays up the money at that time. From that time, the money will be paid. As soon as such people bring in their claim, they will be told...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: I was asked the reason people pay PRSI and contribute to the social insurance fund. People largely do so to secure protection by way of the State pension and unemployment assistance, even if most of us do not envisage becoming unemployed. The attitude of most people is that they pay into the social insurance fund to obtain a pension when they retire. One of the side benefits of these...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (16 Dec 2009)

Mary Hanafin: Senators Ross and Norris highlighted the importance of the examination. In Senator Norris's case, if he had not had that examination, the unfortunate finding of macular degeneration would not have been discovered. We have kept the examination so that such issues can be identified, including oral cancers which other speakers have mentioned. I have no doubt that if people think something is...

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