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Written Answers — Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Personal Injuries Assessment Board (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: 122. To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the amount sitting with the Personal Injuries Assessment Board; the purpose of the board holding those funds; if an assessment has been undertaken to ascertain if there is excess funds in the board and the possible options to use the funds; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [11409/19]

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: I welcome Mr. Watt and his officials. At this stage, has Mr. Watt got to the bottom of what went wrong in the children's hospital project? There is a confirmed overrun of €450 million and there may be a lot more yet to come. People want to know what went wrong. Can Mr. Watt give a clear answer?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: Is Mr. Watt saying that the biggest problem was the fact that this was a two-stage process? Alternatively, was it the fact that the design brief and the detailed specification were not nailed down before the project was sanctioned?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: Is Mr. Watt saying in essence that the Government signed off on a figure of €983 million in April 2017 and that figure did not have a solid foundation? In other words, it was based on quicksand. It was a very rough estimate because the detailed design was not done.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: The issue is that the outline design did not transpire to be close to the final design and the bill of quantities was wildly inaccurate.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: That was the main issue.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: What is Mr. Watt's sense of what the final bill will be?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: That figure amounts to €1.433 billion for construction. Several issues have been identified that lead to a potential for that to rise further. One of these is construction inflation. The contractor must be compensated for any inflation above 4%, as per the average of three published tender price indices, which may occur after July 2019. Has the Department worked out what that could...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: On the question of what monetary sum each 1% increase means-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: Another risk the board has identified is the industry-wide sectoral employment order introduced in 2017. Has that not been fully priced into the contract?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: I have a reply to a parliamentary question which says that the board has also identified the industry-wide sectoral employment order introduced in 2017 as a potential risk.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: When did Mr. Watt and his Department find out about the cost overrun?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: Was that the first that Mr. Watt, as head of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, heard of this very significant emerging increase in costs?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: He said it was on 9 November.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: To be clear, is Mr. Watt saying that the Department knew from November?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: It ended up being higher.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: Yes. What I am not hearing from Mr. Watt is that there was any failing here. The report from late August indicates the current construction budget is estimated to be "€191 million over the value notified to Government in April 2017". That is from the HSE and the Department of Health; it is their estimate of the overrun. There were details of the extra €200 million in cost...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: Mr. Watt has not said there were failings either.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: People in the real world do not understand that. Cost issues were emerging from late 2017 and concerns were being expressed. It was confirmed in August 2018 that this was €191 million over budget and BAM was seeking an extra €200 million. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform was not told about that until November, which is extraordinary. Does Mr. Watt agree?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: National Children's Hospital: Discussion with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (7 Mar 2019)

Michael McGrath: I have a question on the multi-annual capital expenditure ceilings. On 18 December 2018, the Government approved the final contract of €1.433 billion, with Revised Estimates being issued the following day. As far as I can see, the Estimates issued on budget day in October 2018 and again on 19 December did not take account of the increased costs of delivering the national children's...

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